What's your least favorite scripture?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Timmy

That was how the story was recorded by the victors, yes, and I never said otherwise. Could God not be expected to provide protection for His people any other way than to fight fire with fire, so to speak?

Timmy... don't you know the Bible? This is a dumb question. You're wrongfully accusing God. I'll share my perspective...

When God led Israel out of Egypt He protected them supernaturally. When Israel entered the promised land He protected them and subdued their enemies before them supernaturally. It wasn't until after they became a nation that something changed... the people wanted a human king. God warned them through the prophet that a human king would tax them and send their sons and daughters into war. They wanted a king anyway. As soon as they got a human king we see Israel increasingly leaning on their own military might and prowess. We also see them drift from God and sink into the mire of sin and idolatry. As they departed from trusting God... God's hand began to withdraw from them. Soon... military might was all Israel was left to depend on. God promised to fight their battles and protect them... IF THEY RETURNED TO HIM AND TRUSTED HIM. But they refused. The prophets repeatedly rebuke them for this. The prophets also rebuke them for not doing what God said was necessary while trusting in their military might. It was all bad all around because Israel wanted to be a nation like every other nation... but with God's assistance. God tolerated this non-sense until He began sending foreign powers to dominate them and bring them to their knees in repentance. In the NT we see that God sent the Messiah and as a last act of defiance against God's rulership... they murdered Him upon a cross. God then swiftly judged the nation, destroying it through the Romans in AD 70.

The stories of the OT are not easily understood by people who don't understand the over all theme of the Bible. Much of the war and bloodshed seen in the Bible is the result of Israel not trusting God and rebelling against Him as their King. God tolerated their choice, tried to help them, and even gave them instructions on what to do on several occasions, each occasion proving that they were NOT in the will of God.

You're wrongfully accusing God Timmy. And why would victors write a holy book that only accentuates their spiritual failure as they grew in power through military conquest? Why would victors write about how their own God brought the world's greatest powers against them to bring them to repentance because of their own evil???

This entire premise is ignorant baloney. The OT accentuates what SHOULDN'T happen. Not what God wants to happen. It's a tragic story. Not a story of victory and glory. A tragic story of a stiff necked, rebellions, pride driven, nation that wanted God's blessings... but not His guidance. A nation worthy of judgment. An example to us... of what NOT to become.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Timmy... don't you know the Bible? This is a dumb question. You're wrongfully accusing God. I'll share my perspective...

When God led Israel out of Egypt He protected them supernaturally. When Israel entered the promised land He protected them and subdued their enemies before them supernaturally. It wasn't until after they became a nation that something changed... the people wanted a human king. God warned them through the prophet that a human king would tax them and send their sons and daughters into war. They wanted a king anyway. As soon as they got a human king we see Israel increasingly leaning on their own military might and prowess. We also see them drift from God and sink into the mire of sin and idolatry. As they departed from trusting God... God's hand began to withdraw from them. Soon... military might was all Israel was left to depend on. God promised to fight their battles and protect them... IF THEY RETURNED TO HIM AND TRUSTED HIM. But they refused. The prophets repeatedly rebuke them for this. The prophets also rebuke them for not doing what God said was necessary while trusting in their military might. It was all bad all around because Israel wanted to be a nation like every other nation... but with God's assistance. God tolerated this non-sense until He began sending foreign powers to dominate them and bring them to their knees in repentance. In the NT we see that God sent the Messiah and as a last act of defiance against God's rulership... they murdered Him upon a cross. God then swiftly judged the nation, destroying it through the Romans in AD 70.

The stories of the OT are not easily understood by people who don't understand the over all theme of the Bible. Much of the war and bloodshed seen in the Bible is the result of Israel not trusting God and rebelling against Him as their King. God tolerated their choice, tried to help them, and even gave them instructions on what to do on several occasions, each occasion proving that they were NOT in the will of God.

You're wrongfully accusing God Timmy. And why would victors write a holy book that only accentuates their spiritual failure as they grew in power through military conquest???

Numbers 31 and many other similar stories were centuries before there was a king over Israel.

What am I accusing God of? I merely related what God is said to have done (ordered Israel to slaughter people), and wondered if there wasn't another way He could have accomplished His goals for His people.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Numbers 31 and many other similar stories were centuries before there was a king over Israel.

What am I accusing God of? I merely related what God is said to have done (ordered Israel to slaughter people), and wondered if there wasn't another way He could have accomplished His goals for His people.

Again, you're not telling the full story. The first verse sets the context:

Numbers 31:1-2
1 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.”

May I ask for your highly intelligent explanation of what the Midianites did to the nation of Israel to warrant such a reprisal?

C'mon Timmy.... share with us the horrendous events that led to what Midian did to the Israelites and thus provoked the Israelites to meet them with military reprisal.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Again, you're not telling the full story. The first verse sets the context:

Numbers 31:1-2
1 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.”

May I ask for your highly intelligent explanation of what the Midianites did to the nation of Israel to warrant such a reprisal?

C'mon Timmy.... share with us the horrendous events that led to what Midian did to the Israelites and thus provoked the Israelites to meet them with military reprisal.

OK, if the motivation matters (and I'm not saying it doesn't), let's look at it. The only incident I know of that specifically involves Midianites, previous to the battle, is this:

Numbers 25:6-8

6 And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

7 And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;

8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.

But apparently, Moab is "associated with" the Midianites, and in that same chapter, we find Israelites fornicating with Moabite women and worshiping their gods. They paid for their sin with decapitation, and their severed heads were put on display in the sun, to turn God's anger away.

This was good enough to appease God, for the Israelites' sin, and it goes on to say that many of the Midianites were slain, but apparently it wasn't good enough, yet. So there's your motivation for the genocide (saving the virgin girls, of course).