Well, I'll have to say I don't read that Scripture in I John quite as my brother does, and we will agree to disagree. I think to take the full context of the whole conversation that is going on in that Scripture, to say that one must be "free from sin, completely and totally" is proof texting a bit.
Don't get me wrong, the obedience, consecration, life, even consistency of the believer is important for presenting an environment for healings... however, it's not a guarantee. To me this are contributing factors, but the major one being the Will of God.
Well, I'll have to say I don't read that Scripture in I John quite as my brother does, and we will agree to disagree. I think to take the full context of the whole conversation that is going on in that Scripture, to say that one must be "free from sin, completely and totally" is proof texting a bit.
Don't get me wrong, the obedience, consecration, life, even consistency of the believer is important for presenting an environment for healings... however, it's not a guarantee. To me this are contributing factors, but the major one being the Will of God.
Maybe he means free from unforgiven sin. Get those sins washed away first, and then pray.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
The more you guys try to explain this to Timmy, the worse it gets. Good grief, now I'M starting to doubt God, and it's not from what Timmy says but from what the apologists are saying!! This is like Job's buddies showing up and trying to explain Job's problems. Elihu finally showed up and set things straight. Elihu!!?? We need you, can you jump in here?
__________________ Old Paths II is....not sharing an IP address with any other user. You can put the question about him being another poster to rest. He's just OPII. All by himself. He's not a fake, he's an original. ~The Mrs
The more you guys try to explain this to Timmy, the worse it gets. Good grief, now I'M starting to doubt God, and it's not from what Timmy says but from what the apologists are saying!! This is like Job's buddies showing up and trying to explain Job's problems. Elihu finally showed up and set things straight. Elihu!!?? We need you, can you jump in here?
OP2 taking Timmy's side (kinda)?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
And that modification to the original premise is really why I was hesitant about following the logic all the way through. That is actually a different premise, and honestly one that I don't find an answer to in the Word of God.
When we begin to build doctrines and teachings from the Word, we have to be careful of the antithesis statement that doctrine is also making so that we can follow it all the way through. Where Bro. Jay stated earlier that someone has to ask, I don't see that in the Scriptures.
The principle that I see in Scripture is that if we do ask, it shall be given, if we do seek, we shall find, etc. But to push that to the conclusion that if nothing's ever asked for it won't be done is taking the Scriptures way beyond what they are saying. I think we have to take them at face value.... that asking makes a huge difference.
In the end, we all know that God has worked in many of our lives in situations we didn't even know we needed to ask for anything yet... kept back situations we weren't even aware of... so I can't see anything in the Word that says, healings may be withheld just because you didn't ask.
I do believe that there are times that prayers are answered before they are even asked.
Did not God say in Isaiah, "And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear." (Isa 65:24)
I realize that this is speaking of the Millineal Reign, but I have watched this fulfilled in my own life. God knew my need, and before I even was aware that I had it, He was opening the doors, and within seconds of my request, the answer was in my hands.
I believe that in the vast majority of cases there must be a request made to Him, although it does not need to take an hour to receive the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Matt
Well...here's what I think. Faith isn't what it used to be. People don't believe like oldtimers used to. Where we have internet, some people television, so much technology and so much happening, oldtimers had nothing but church. They probably prayed a lot more, fasted a lot more and with less cheats, and read their Word more than we do now. That being said, I have personally seen miracles, signs, and wonders, and I have heard of miracles, signs, and wonders, from people who would have absolutely no reason to lie to me. They do still happen, just not as often, due to a lack of real, unrelenting faith.
I think that you have hit upon a major problem. I know of very many people who struggle with coming to the church half an hour before service for prayer, not because they have a legitimate issue (jobs mainly) but because they do not view it as important.
These then grumble about how nothing ever happens in church, no miracles are seen, prayers answered, or people saved (I am not commenting about anyone here that I am aware of).
Further, we have everything at our fingertips, and feel as if we need nothing. We are rich and increased with goods. A lack of food is not an issue, our medicines are the best in the world, and we are satisfied.
The saddest portion of this scenario is that we have forgotten the God upon whom we should be depending and thanking for our goods. Instead we through them in His face, and proclaim that we do not need His healing power, provision, and gracious care. Is it any wonder then that we are fixing to reap a terrible harvest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafon
Jesus said, "And ALL things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." ~ Matthew 21:22
It would seem to me that when one is taking heed to and obeying the things which John said that they MUST do in order to have "confidence" that God will hear and answer their prayer (yea, even those where healing is requested), then God has obligated Himself to respond accordingly.
So again I feel compelled to say ~ ALL of the emphasis rests with the petitioner: 1. We MUST ask in prayer; 2. We MUST believe (i.e., possess the "confidence" that because we are living righteously He will "hear" and grant our petition), and then; 3. We MUST receive it.
In the absence of any of these three essentials then it can hardly be said that we possess the "confidence" that God will "hear" our petition and grant it.
I agree with this totally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins
Well, I'll have to say I don't read that Scripture in I John quite as my brother does, and we will agree to disagree. I think to take the full context of the whole conversation that is going on in that Scripture, to say that one must be "free from sin, completely and totally" is proof texting a bit.
Don't get me wrong, the obedience, consecration, life, even consistency of the believer is important for presenting an environment for healings... however, it's not a guarantee. To me this are contributing factors, but the major one being the Will of God.
I agree with you as well. Sometimes it pleases God to allow a person to suffer for many years with an illness only to suddenly heal them without warning. Sometimes it can be inferred what His purpose was, and other times it takes a process of years before all is revealed if it is even then. This is why we do not place our faith in the miracles, but rather in the God who gives us the miracles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
OP2 taking Timmy's side (kinda)?
That was just funny.
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I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.
I'm not taking Timmy's side but right now I'd say he's way ahead on points and about to score a TKO.
__________________ Old Paths II is....not sharing an IP address with any other user. You can put the question about him being another poster to rest. He's just OPII. All by himself. He's not a fake, he's an original. ~The Mrs
Hybrid Mode
