Forget race for just one moment. Forget Al Sharpton, the media, Obama, and all the other red herrings.
An armed 28 year old man pursued an unarmed 17 year old boy for no reason even after being told not to and to just meet the police that he called (for what reason, I do not know). He is obviously mad that "he is getting away" (with what, I do not know) and that he is running. He makes it plain that he will not be waiting by his truck as he was told and pursues and kills the boy some distance away. You're okay with him claiming self defense and walking away? Even if the 17 year-old was yours?
Bro,
It is extremely difficult to be COMPLETELY objective and make it personal all at the same time.
For some, it is simply inconvenient to consider Trayvon Martin a boy, let alone their own flesh and blood.
They don't have a frame of reference to compare something like this to because something like this hasn't happened to them. Some folks will never understand, and I am learning to accept that unfortunate fact.
As time goes on, maybe one day every American will become oblivious to matters of race and prejudice because these things just never happen to anyone, any more.
Maybe 2/26/12 will be the last page in a sad chapter-- not just for the Martin and Zimmerman families, but for the whole country.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Tstew, I have not heard anyone denying that Zim followed Martin. That's not in question.
What you need to show is that he continued following after he conceded with dispatch. And then you will need to prove that Zim was not attacked while returning to his car, and beaten while Zimmerman called for help, as witnesses testified.
That would be the point in the issue, Hoovie. The ones that are trying to hang Zimmerman, the ball is in their court. I don't have a problem changing my view of the altercation, but I need to have proof to do that. We don't, as yet, have that. It's just speculation. We do, however, have a police report.
Tstew, I have not heard anyone denying that Zim followed Martin. That's not in question.
What you need to show is that he continued following after he conceded with dispatch. And then you will need to prove that Zim was not attacked while returning to his car, and beaten while Zimmerman called for help, as witnesses testified.
What I'm saying up front is that I don't see how anybody can pursue anybody for no reason...then claim self-defense. When he said "(blank) he's running". You hear him get out of his car then. When dispatch tries to arrange for the meeting point (his truck) he is very clear that the police should call him to find out where he is whenever they got there. I am pretty sure that the confrontation did not happen outside of his truck...but if it did, I guess that will be a part of his defense.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
My God. Nothing would be broken or dead at all if Zimmerman had not taken it upon himself to harass another American who was not bothering him. I just do not believe what I am reading here. I just don't understand your reasoning here at all. He says "they always get away" then "(expletive) he's running". This man pursued a kid for no reason and ended up killing him.
The amazing thing to me is that you find it absolutely impossible that the boy pursued in this scenario could have broken Zimmerman's nose in self-defense, but completely logical that the pursuer would take his life in self defense. (That's assuming his nose is broken, the fact that the boy is dead is unfortunately not debatable)
Since you're doing background checks, have you read the prior violent arrests that Zimmerman has?
Stew, I am sitting here thinking what my husband would do if he was Trayvon. He would be irritated at Zimmerman, but unless Zimmerman hit him first, he would not have touched him at all.
The burden of proof rests with you to prove that Zimmerman made the first physical move.
Do you have any proof that Trayvon had any bodily injury besides the gunshot wound? Because I haven't seen anything to indicate that he did.
And, IMO, if that was MY apartment complex, I would feel I had every right to question or to observe a person entering my gated community that I was not familiar with.
That would be the point in the issue, Hoovie. The ones that are trying to hang Zimmerman, the ball is in their court. I don't have a problem changing my view of the altercation, but I need to have proof to do that. We don't, as yet, have that. It's just speculation. We do, however, have a police report.
Out of curiosity, if this confrontation occurred any significant distance from the truck, would that change your view of the altercation?
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I listened to the 911 tapes again and there is no doubt in my mind that zim followed Trayvon Martin.
There's no doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin gave zim a good fight, defending himself while in his FIGHT or FLIGHT mode that humans go into when they feel threatened.
Two things this case highlights for me include:
1) How far we have come in this country when it comes to matters of race. The PUBLIC outrage is not limited by color or culture and that's a very good thing and it is indicative of the brotherhood that most AMericans feel for each other;
2) How far we have to go when it comes to race, perceptions and prejudices. This isn't the America my Dad grew up in, and I am so proud of our progress and proud of my country and my fellow citizens. Most Americans are genuinely good human beings, but all of us, myself included have room for growth when it comes to prejudice and how we interact with each other.
This whole incident started due to prejudice, included senseless violence that could have been avoided, but has the potential to end with a general public's confidence renewed in a justice system that is often abused.
God bless America.
Are you still of the opinion that there is a racial dynamic? I just don't think there is that much current racial tension between Hispanics and Blacks...
Even in the Sanford Police Dept., does anyone know whether they have a track record of going easy on Hispanics?
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Tstew, I have not heard anyone denying that Zim followed Martin. That's not in question.
What you need to show is that he continued following after he conceded with dispatch. And then you will need to prove that Zim was not attacked while returning to his car, and beaten while Zimmerman called for help, as witnesses testified.
Listen to the tape. He's out of breath at the end of the call because he's excited and moving still-- but not towards his vehicle. Zim never said he was returning to his vehicle.
In fact, he told dispatch to tell the police to call him so he could tell them where he would be at that point.
He was out of breath and moving-- even commented about not knowing where that kid is, to imply he was looking for him because he couldn't see him.
We have Martin's phone record that prove he was on the phone with his girlfriend at 7:15pm-- just like she said.
We have 1 of the other 911 calls that started at 7:16-- to report a fight.
If Martin was on the phone at 7:15 with his girlfriend, expressing his concern about being followed, then at 7:16 he was in a fight, and zim's call ended at 7:12 with him complaining that he could not see the kid and that he wanted the police to call him when they arrived so he could tell them his location, CIRCUMSTANTIALLY it's established that zim followed Martin (because he was looking for him) and it is not a big stretch to believe that zim started the confrontation that led to Martin's death.
His truck was parked at a fixed location, right? Because zim was on foot, right? So why not tell the dispatch to have the police meet me back at my truck, parked at XYZ location.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
What I'm saying up front is that I don't see how anybody can pursue anybody for no reason...then claim self-defense. When he said "(blank) he's running". You hear him get out of his car then. When dispatch tries to arrange for the meeting point (his truck) he is very clear that the police should call him to find out where he is whenever they got there. I am pretty sure that the confrontation did not happen outside of his truck...but if it did, I guess that will be a part of his defense.
Why would he be running if he didn't feel like a guilty person? That just raises suspicion.
Bro,
It is extremely difficult to be COMPLETELY objective and make it personal all at the same time.
For some, it is simply inconvenient to consider Trayvon Martin a boy, let alone their own flesh and blood.
They don't have a frame of reference to compare something like this to because something like this hasn't happened to them. Some folks will never understand, and I am learning to accept that unfortunate fact.
As time goes on, maybe one day every American will become oblivious to matters of race and prejudice because these things just never happen to anyone, any more.
Maybe 2/26/12 will be the last page in a sad chapter-- not just for the Martin and Zimmerman families, but for the whole country.
Yeah, I guess it is a complex issue, but I honestly feel like my impression of what I heard on the 911 call and subsequent actions would be the same regardless of race. Where race comes into play is the feeling for us that this could be one of our sons being accosted for no reason.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Are you still of the opinion that there is a racial dynamic? I just don't think there is that much current racial tension between Hispanics and Blacks...
Even in the Sanford Police Dept., does anyone know whether they have a track record of going easy on Hispanics?
My husband said that if they keep pushing the black racial edge to this, they will have problems with the Hispanics.
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