The longer this drags on, the more I am convinced that Zim was justified in shooting Trayvon. IMO I have no doubt Trayvon attacked Zim because he didn't like the fact that Zim followed and confronted him out of suspicion of Trayvon's behavior.
I think others know this too so they are waging a publicity war against Zim to make him guilty in as many peopels eyes as they can, all the while ignoring the fact that "little" Trayvon wasn't a saint. They keep plastering some 10 year old pic of an innocent looking little boy instead of any of the more up to date pics that show that Trayvon wasn't some little tiny boy. They do that in order to further demonize Zimmerman by making peopel feel emotionally that he killed a small innocent boy instead of the over 6 foot football player he actually was.
IMO Al and Jesse, etc know this will fail at trial, so they want to win the propaganda war before it even gets there so Zimmerman will be guilty in others eyes where ever he goes. They also, I have no doubt, would lik nothing more than for it to lead to riots a la the Rodney King debacle. They thrive on fake racism and the problems it causes. Further, I have no doubt that our POTUS secretly loves the idea of this going badly and errupting into more race problems. He knows that will "rally" the blacks to blindly cast there votes for good ol Obama out fo some misconstrued notion of "sticking together" while white guys like Zimmerman(who isn't white) kill them and descriminate against them.
This is where you guys lose me. I've said from the beginning to disregard the race of the people and consider the circumstances. The fact that anyone thinks it's okay for armed adults who are not law enforcement or trained or vetted in any way to start following teenagers for no reason at all is confusing. The fact that you think it's okay for him to continue to follow after he has already called the proper authorities and has been told that he didn't need to follow and should just meet the officers is even more confusing. When he does all of this, pursues the kid who he said was trying to get away from him (because apparently they always get away), eventually catches and kills him, anyone saying he was justified just confuses me to no end.
If there was no loss of life, it would be laughable to suggest that a teenager being chased would not be justified in standing his ground to the extent that he moderately injured his pursuer (if it did happen), but the pursuer is undoubtedly justified in standing his ground to the extent that he killed the person he was chasing (which we know did happen).
I hope nothing like this happens to anyone close to anybody here, but I think we would be well served to put ourselves in the shoes of the victim here (and I do believe there is one...and only one). I have a son who will likely be a larger than average 17 year old. The last thing I want is for armed yahoos to think they can arbitrarily chase and apprehend him for no reason at all.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
If there was no loss of life, it would be laughable to suggest that a teenager being chased would not be justified in standing his ground to the extent that he moderately injured his pursuer .
Agreed.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
If there was no loss of life, it would be laughable to suggest that a teenager being chased would not be justified in standing his ground to the extent that he moderately injured his pursuer (if it did happen),
.
Stew, I am seriously trying to see how you come to such conclusion. I was in Atlanta for week last month. On several occasions I was followed and even approached on the streets after dark. Once I was alone. Are you really saying I would we justified in attacking the individual? I think not. It would not give me the right to confront and attack, nor hide and surprise jump him.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Stew, I am seriously trying to see how you come to such conclusion. I was in Atlanta for week last month. On several occasions I was followed and even approached on the streets after dark. Once I was alone. Are you really saying I would we justified in attacking the individual? I think not. It would not give me the right to confront and attack, nor hide and surprise jump him.
We know there was confronting... but we do not know who attacked who first. Do we ?
I have been to Atlanta several times. You are a brave man to walk alone there after dark.
How were you followed? Did you feel threatened? Where they watching you? Stopping when you stopped? Walking when you walked?
What were the circumstances?
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
We know there was confronting... but we do not know who attacked who first. Do we ?
I have been to Atlanta several times. You are a brave man to walk alone there after dark.
How were you followed? Did you feel threatened? Where they watching you? Stopping when you stopped? Walking when you walked?
What were the circumstances?
No we don't know... except it does not appear Travon had any injury aside from the bullet wound. That would suggest he was attacking Zim, would it not? At any rate, I am an advocate of letting the evidence doing the talking. To think this forum or the media has a better handle on this than the Special Prosecutor is preposterous.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Stew, I am seriously trying to see how you come to such conclusion. I was in Atlanta for week last month. On several occasions I was followed and even approached on the streets after dark. Once I was alone. Are you really saying I would we justified in attacking the individual? I think not. It would not give me the right to confront and attack, nor hide and surprise jump him.
Hoovie, I hope you are being facetious, but for the sake of the conversation:
There is a big difference between you feeling like you were being followed and this situation where we know he was being pursued "because they always get away". But, yes, if you were being followed by a man who was mad because you were "getting away" and if said man got out of his vehicle to pursue you when you ran away, I could easily see there being a point when you needed to stand your ground.
What I absolutely would have a hard time seeing is how said man could chase and kill you in self defense (once again after having been advised not too). That would be true if he was green and you were purple.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
This is where you guys lose me. I've said from the beginning to disregard the race of the people and consider the circumstances. The fact that anyone thinks it's okay for armed adults who are not law enforcement or trained or vetted in any way to start following teenagers for no reason at all is confusing. The fact that you think it's okay for him to continue to follow after he has already called the proper authorities and has been told that he didn't need to follow and should just meet the officers is even more confusing. When he does all of this, pursues the kid who he said was trying to get away from him (because apparently they always get away), eventually catches and kills him, anyone saying he was justified just confuses me to no end.
If there was no loss of life, it would be laughable to suggest that a teenager being chased would not be justified in standing his ground to the extent that he moderately injured his pursuer (if it did happen), but the pursuer is undoubtedly justified in standing his ground to the extent that he killed the person he was chasing (which we know did happen).
I hope nothing like this happens to anyone close to anybody here, but I think we would be well served to put ourselves in the shoes of the victim here (and I do believe there is one...and only one). I have a son who will likely be a larger than average 17 year old. The last thing I want is for armed yahoos to think they can arbitrarily chase and apprehend him for no reason at all.
You assume a lot of things that don't appear to be true. Let's think this through slowly. First, if I am on a neighborhood watch and there have been break ins and such in my neighborhood I am going to have my eyes open. When I see a suspicious person walking around who doesn't appear familiar, perhaps doesn't belong int he neighborhood, I'm probably going to look into it. I would call the authorities as Zimmerman did, but lets not be fools about this. The average response time to a 911 call in some places is upwards of 30 minutes. The suspicious person is long gone by that time. Not to mention, the dispatcher did NOT tell Zim NOT to follow Trayvon. They said they didnt need him to do it. BIG difference.
Second, if you or I are following a person who appears suspicious...why would the person we are following feel the need to assault you or me? I can follow someone around and if they didn't like it, the normal response would be to ask me why I am following them or call the police if they were really worried, not come at me and attempt to smash my head into the ground. There is no report that Zimmerman did anything BUT follow Trayvon. You don't turn around and attack a person for following you. You ask why they are following you, run away, or call the police.
Now, if the person we are following does decide to turn around and attack us, to me it tells me two things: first that I was right to be suspicious of them because innocent people don't just attack other humands and second, I better defend myself. And if I am armed, you better believe the person attacking me is the one getting put down.
It amazes me that no matter how much we keep finding out about "innocne tlittle" Trayvon people just seem to ignore it. One person in the story is a neighborhood watch member, passed the checks to get a concealed carry, volunteered weekends to help minorites and was respected and liked by his neighbors...INCLUDING many blacks. The other was kicked out of school for drugs and has the appearance of yet another thug with gold teeth. Yet somehow...the good guy is the teen druggy here?
You assume a lot of things that don't appear to be true. Let's think this through slowly. First, if I am on a neighborhood watch and there have been break ins and such in my neighborhood I am going to have my eyes open. When I see a suspicious person walking around who doesn't appear familiar, perhaps doesn't belong int he neighborhood, I'm probably going to look into it. I would call the authorities as Zimmerman did, but lets not be fools about this. The average response time to a 911 call in some places is upwards of 30 minutes. The suspicious person is long gone by that time. Not to mention, the dispatcher did NOT tell Zim NOT to follow Trayvon. They said they didnt need him to do it. BIG difference.
Second, if you or I are following a person who appears suspicious...why would the person we are following feel the need to assault you or me? I can follow someone around and if they didn't like it, the normal response would be to ask me why I am following them or call the police if they were really worried, not come at me and attempt to smash my head into the ground. There is no report that Zimmerman did anything BUT follow Trayvon. You don't turn around and attack a person for following you. You ask why they are following you, run away, or call the police.
Now, if the person we are following does decide to turn around and attack us, to me it tells me two things: first that I was right to be suspicious of them because innocent people don't just attack other humands and second, I better defend myself. And if I am armed, you better believe the person attacking me is the one getting put down.
It amazes me that no matter how much we keep finding out about "innocne tlittle" Trayvon people just seem to ignore it. One person in the story is a neighborhood watch member, passed the checks to get a concealed carry, volunteered weekends to help minorites and was respected and liked by his neighbors...INCLUDING many blacks. The other was kicked out of school for drugs and has the appearance of yet another thug with gold teeth. Yet somehow...the good guy is the teen druggy here?
I too am not terribly swayed by the history of the people involved, but if you are I think it is terribly disingenuous to ignore Zimmerman's history. How do you reference the school record of a juvenile, but totally disregard the actual violent arrests of the adult?
Everything I read said that Zimmerman was a "self appointed" neighborhood watch captain, but I will go along with him being neighborhood watch. Neighborhood watches have certain stated principles that they go by for this very reason. First of all they are not to be armed. Secondly, they are to observe and call the police if they see anything and not chase down anybody. I would imagine that this case will be incorporated into future training.
I highlighted your run option because that's exactly what Zimmerman said he did...then he got out of the car to chase him.
At the end of the day, if the message you want to send is that it is okay for armed, grown men to start chasing teenagers around for no reason, I just have to disagree. What if it were a 17 year old white girl? Would that change anything in your mind?
And if you listen to the recording, it is obvious what dispatch is telling him they want him to do.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I too am not terribly swayed by the history of the people involved, but if you are I think it is terribly disingenuous to ignore Zimmerman's history. How do you reference the school record of a juvenile, but totally disregard the actual violent arrests of the adult?
Everything I read said that Zimmerman was a "self appointed" neighborhood watch captain, but I will go along with him being neighborhood watch. Neighborhood watches have certain stated principles that they go by for this very reason. First of all they are not to be armed. Secondly, they are to observe and call the police if they see anything and not chase down anybody. I would imagine that this case will be incorporated into future training.
I highlighted your run option because that's exactly what Zimmerman said he did...then he got out of the car to chase him.
At the end of the day, if the message you want to send is that it is okay for armed, grown men to start chasing teenagers around for no reason, I just have to disagree. What if it were a 17 year old white girl? Would that change anything in your mind?
And if you listen to the recording, it is obvious what dispatch is telling him they want him to do.
Come on, tstew, a white girl? When have we had a white girl slipping around the back of townhouses? A young man of any color would raise questions, in the rain at night, do you want any man do that in your backyard. Martin may have made some every bad choices, that cost him his life.
Let's wait for the full evidence, if the evidence proves Zimmerman did nothing wrong, what will be your response? What will be the black community's in Stanford's response? More killing?
If the evidence proves Zimmerman is a fault, I support him being arrested and taken to trial. If not, his life is ruined, because the race baiters will hound him without end. The libs are going use this sad young man's death for political purposes for years to come, no matter how is turns out.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Come on, tstew, a white girl? When have we had a white girl slipping around the back of townhouses? A young man of any color would raise questions, in the rain at night, do you want any man do that in your backyard. Martin may have made some every bad choices, that cost him his life.
Let's wait for the full evidence, if the evidence proves Zimmerman did nothing wrong, what will be your response? What will be the black community's in Stanford's response? More killing?
If the evidence proves Zimmerman is a fault, I support him being arrested and taken to trial. If not, his life is ruined, because the race baiters will hound him without end. The libs are going use this sad young man's death for political purposes for years to come, no matter how is turns out.
As the high priest said, "better that one man should die, than the whole nation perish".
Hybrid Mode
