Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

T2W, you are treading on dangerous ground here. Perhaps Froggy will not look at upon this question as the baby taken from the womb. He seems to look at it as a termination of pregnancy, therefore..abortion. Never mind the circumstances.
But let's wait to see if he clarifies his position





They should be given every chance to survive imo.



T2W, you do have a point here. Most of us go to the doctor because we don't want any medical condition to get out of hand, therefore the possibility of death. Would anybody expect a mother to die because she develops something as dangerous ad DIC, preeclampsia or any of the above you mentioned? Then to take these situations and call it an abortion because the definition of the term is to terminate pregnancy. frog is trying to find some loophole in my stance because I made a statement that I do not approve of ANY abortion. He wants to use medical emergencies as a point to blow apart my statement by pointing out that technically removing a baby from the mother's womb is abortion and that I approve of that condition of "abortion".

But let's wait and see if frog will clarify his intent on this particular subject.

Froggy says all abortions are willful abortions. I consider willful abortions to be abortion upon demand...simply because the mother, father or both do not want to disrupt their life with a baby. Perhaps he will call me a hypocrite for not considering these medical procedures to be a willful abortion because of the desire to save the mother's life. These types of termination of pregnancy will happen either by medical procedures or by death and are not willful.

I already clarified my position. There is no difference in taking a baby from the womb for it to die and killing it in the womb.

Every abortion is a choice. If the desire to save a mother's life interferes with a desire to save an unborn babies life then whose right trumps whose?

[Hoovie]

To the question of how much money to spend on a baby delivered early - it would be a difficult question, but not unlike one that is faced daily concerning other people. You do what you can with the resources available.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

T2W, you are treading on dangerous ground here. Perhaps Froggy will not look at upon this question as the baby taken from the womb. He seems to look at it as a termination of pregnancy, therefore..abortion. Never mind the circumstances.
But let's wait to see if he clarifies his position

They should be given every chance to survive imo.

T2W, you do have a point here. Most of us go to the doctor because we don't want any medical condition to get out of hand, therefore the possibility of death. Would anybody expect a mother to die because she develops something as dangerous ad DIC, preeclampsia or any of the above you mentioned? Then to take these situations and call it an abortion because the definition of the term is to terminate pregnancy. frog is trying to find some loophole in my stance because I made a statement that I do not approve of ANY abortion. He wants to use medical emergencies as a point to blow apart my statement by pointing out that technically removing a baby from the mother's womb is abortion and that I approve of that condition of "abortion".

But let's wait and see if frog will clarify his intent on this particular subject.

Froggy says all abortions are willful abortions. I consider willful abortions to be abortion upon demand...simply because the mother, father or both do not want to disrupt their life with a baby. Perhaps he will call me a hypocrite for not considering these medical procedures to be a willful abortion because of the desire to save the mother's life. These types of termination of pregnancy will happen either by medical procedures or by death and are not willful.

I think that working in medicine has made both of us realists AYR... We may express what we believe a little differently but we both know that a happy, normal event like a pregnancy can become a serious life threatening emergency in the blink of an eye. These are not situations that most people have ever prepared for and decisions must be urgently made with no time for consideration. Most folks are going to go with the doctors recommendation no matter their convictions on a higher spiritual level... we are still weak fleshly humans and God knows it. As a side note 90% of JWs take blood when it becomes life or death

My question about million dollar babies was simply to get a feel for how people with a moment or two to think about it believe they would handle it. It has been my experience that parents who might not want every intervention are often made to feel as if they are killing their child when in fact they are leaving it to God to decide. I personally believe that there are many interventions I would not want for my own child or grandchild. I feel fortunate that these things were not available when I had my own children. So much pressure for those with extreme premies.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by jfrog

You would get further if you changed your tone a little...

My tone would have never gotten this way if I did not feel that you were trying to paint me as a "hypocrite" Yet.

I am waiting for the "Yet" to fall down on top of my head for some word or sentence I did not post clearly enough for you to try to trap me in my words.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I already clarified my position. There is no difference in taking a baby from the womb for it to die and killing it in the womb.

I can tell that you are ignorant of medical conditions. So...let's move on to the next question.

Originally Posted by jfrog

Every abortion is a choice. If the desire to save a mother's life interferes with a desire to save an unborn babies life then whose right trumps whose?

I am assuming you are a man and husband. But even if you are not married at the moment, here is something to think about. Would you let your wife die in a medical emergency during pregnancy and possibly your child too should she be so very unfortunate to develop one of these illnesses during pregnancy?

I pray that never happens to you or your family.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I can tell that you are ignorant of medical conditions. So...let's move on to the next question.



I am assuming you are a man and husband. But even if you are not married at the moment, here is something to think about. Would you let your wife die in a medical emergency during pregnancy and possibly your child too should she be so very unfortunate to develop one of these illnesses during pregnancy?

I pray that never happens to you or your family.

Stop talking down to me.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I can tell that you are ignorant of medical conditions. So...let's move on to the next question.



I am assuming you are a man and husband. But even if you are not married at the moment, here is something to think about. Would you let your wife die in a medical emergency during pregnancy and possibly your child too should she be so very unfortunate to develop one of these illnesses during pregnancy?

I pray that never happens to you or your family.

Strange you would ask jfrog this. I was of the opinion jfrog was not personally opposed to abortion...

[Titus2woman]

I just want to remind, although I'm sure someone has already made the point, but if the woman carrying the baby dies there is NO chance of life for an unborn fetus. So any necessary procedure to save a pregnant woman's life including vacuuming out a fetus in pieces is simply prudent medical care. It might not be necessary in some cases but it might in others.

To even suggest that a pregnant woman risk her life to 'save' a fetus is way beyond the call of duty for anyone. For people who attempt to make women feel as if anything short of dying to avoid termination of a pregnancy is unacceptable are as as guilty of supporting unnecessary killing as those who support TOP on demand.

There is a sane middle ground here but I am feeling as if we might not ever find it with things disintegrating the way they seem to be.

Frog I am completely confused as to your position on any of this. Do you support TOP on demand? I have not heard you say that you do and I wonder if we are making assumptions based on the fact that you find some political Christians positions hypocritical. I can see that without supporting TOP on demand in any way...

Do tell.

[deafdriscoll]

I have been away for awhile. I am against abortion on demand. I believe we could in time do away with those clinics or get rid of many of them if we prayed and witnessed to women in need. Even if we save one we have won.
However, I am in no place to decide if a 11 year old should have a baby.They are not ready. Their body is not ready. That is one of my business what the parents do.That is between them and God.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I just want to remind, although I'm sure someone has already made the point, but if the woman carrying the baby dies there is NO chance of life for an unborn fetus. So any necessary procedure to save a pregnant woman's life including vacuuming out a fetus in pieces is simply prudent medical care. It might not be necessary in some cases but it might in others.

To even suggest that a pregnant woman risk her life to 'save' a fetus is way beyond the call of duty for anyone. For people who attempt to make women feel as if anything short of dying to avoid termination of a pregnancy is unacceptable are as as guilty of supporting unnecessary killing as those who support TOP on demand.

There is a sane middle ground here but I am feeling as if we might not ever find it with things disintegrating the way they seem to be.

Frog I am completely confused as to your position on any of this. Do you support TOP on demand? I have not heard you say that you do and I wonder if we are making assumptions based on the fact that you find some political Christians positions hypocritical. I can see that without supporting TOP on demand in any way...

Do tell.

Let me begin by saying that I dislike abortions. Let me sum up my position by saying that abortion is not murder. However I do think that the closer an "unborn child" is to being birthed the more morally repugnant abortion becomes, if done within the last month of pregnancy then I would definetely feel that abortion is nearing murder. Therefore, I am for a limited time frame for when abortions can be performed.

Am I for abortion on demand even if done in the first few months? I don't think anyone finds the practice of abortion pleasing so in that sense I am not for it. Am I for it because I refuse to see it as murder? no not really. I am quite against it. However, because I don't view it as murder then I can morally and unhypocritically find allowances for abortion by rape victims and any other exception not covered in self defense scenarios.

However, I understand that if abortions for rape victims are allowed then any girl can lie and claim to have been raped in order to receive an abortion. Therefore the solution is to either just allow them for everyone or allow them for no one...

So due to the impossibility of determining whether a girl has been raped or not I feel abortions must be allowed because I find it more morally repugnant to force such a person to carry the rapists baby to term than I do for a woman having an abortion within say the first three months.