Why is endorsing gay marriage/civil unions bad?

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Yes they can but all those things cost alot more money to get put into effect. Paying lawyers is not cheap.

Also, insurance coverage cannot be obtained on employer insurance plans for the other person in the relationship. That's something that there is no possible legal remedy for.

I have about as much truck with insurance as with gay marriage,
but agree with your point. In spirit. In truth, gays can drop the offensive
(to most) "marriage" term, if in fact their purpose is strictly legal,
despite the fact that the term does also have legal defs.

However, I'm pretty sure that "offense" is the point for many of them.
You can legally adopt your lover, and there are orgs that will help, even,
so not buying the "no legal remedy."

One needn't even go that far; claiming one as a dependent
on their taxes has held up in court for these purposes-
-you just have to be prepared to fight for your right, just like normal people.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

It's not a bad mentality. We don't necessarily have to know if a doctor, lawyer, or Indian Chief is a homosexual. But we know if two men are marrying each other they are.

Giving two men the right to marry each other is giving legitimacy to homosexuality.

Define, "legitimacy."


A Democrat President endorsing gay marriage shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

I can separate the role of the American government vs. the role of Christianity in the lives of individual Americans.

This is pretty much the same argument that a Christian uses to knowingly cast a vote for a pagan, luke-warm, milque toast mormon for President.

[bbyrd009]

"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion means."
Mahatma Gandhi

but touche' anyway.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by jfrog

So anyone care to explain to me what is wrong with endorsing gay marriage/civil unions?

Here's the deal, there are many devout Christians from various theological views that endorse gay marriage. Some are of liberal theological roots that see homosexuality as not being sin. Others are more libertarian, believing that in a free country two private individuals should be allowed to enter any private living arrangement they desire, not to mention that prohibiting "liberal Christians" from performing gay marriage is an infringement on religious liberty.

It's a thorny issue. No conservative or moderate Christian wants to "endorse" the gay lifestyle. But how do we balance liberty in a free country with personal religious convictions? For me, that's the struggle. I don't endorse the gay lifestyle. However, I know that not all religious points of view agree on the issue so it brings into play religious liberty... and private individuals desire to marry.

A more personal issue I face with regards to marriage is that my wife walked out on me almost three years ago. I've had people tell me that I'm not permitted to remarry and if I do I'm living in abomination. Some have told me that if my wife is to blame, I'm free to remarry but she isn't. However, the truth is that we both contributed to the failure of our marriage. Both of us. I cannot place all the blame on her. Also, I don't feel comfortable dragging her through the mud to a pastor to justify my remarriage, should I choose to remarry. This causes me to pause and ask the question..."What if the laws regarding marriage in the United States mirrored the opinion of those who believe that remarriage is always an adulterous abomination?" What if the laws prohibited me from marrying based on religious convictions of someone else?

Also, why do so many churches embrace families of a second marriage... even if the "offender" is the one coming to their church? I don't see us holding firm to the definition of straight marriage... are we allowing straight couples more grace and freedom than other Americans? I admit, I don't have all the answers.

It's a difficult issue that each individual will have to settle within their own hearts. Regardless of what anyone thinks of you, you alone will answer to God for what you believe AND why. Let everyone be convinced in his/her own heart. I know deeply spiritual and faithful Christians from all theological backgrounds that have various views on this issue. I don't berate them or judge them. They are my brothers and sisters. I know gay people who are also seeking to follow Jesus as best as they can. They are not my servants, they will not answer to me. They are Christ's. He alone can judge the thoughts and intents of the heart. He alone knows why we struggle with what we struggle with. And I for one would rather error on the side of grace, forgiveness, understanding, and love... than get to Heaven and discover that I wasn't gracious, forgiving, understanding, or loving enough. So I give the issue to the LORD.

Lastly, given the nature of our society, I don't see government limiting personal freedoms. Our nation has typically expanded human freedoms and human rights... even if human freedoms and human rights go beyond traditional morals. I've chosen not to loose sleep on it. I'll try to follow Christ, loving all my neighbors as myself, and praying that God has His perfect way in the hearts of His elect children.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion means."
Mahatma Gandhi

but touche' anyway.

What if the majority voted to take away tax exemption from non-Trinitarian churches because they are not historically "Christian"? Most would answer "religious liberty".

Okay... what about churches that hold a liberal religious position on the matter? Does
'religious liberty" count towards them on this issue?

I believe the government needs to get out of our homes, bedrooms, marriages, and media... unless it endangers the life, liberty, or property of another.

[Jay]

The issue is not just 'gay marriage', but the desire for the endorsement, approval, and celebration of their lifestyle by the community at large. For this reason, they will not stop once they have gay marriage but will seek to have the approval of any and all houses of worship. It will eventually be mandated that if you wish to perform marriage ceremonies for heterosexual couples, then you must also provide the same service for homosexual couples. This is already begun here in the States. Hutchinson, KS is proof of this. The homosexual lobby has recently stated that merely tolerating or approving of homosexuality is blatant homophobia.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Yes they can but all those things cost alot more money to get put into effect. Paying lawyers is not cheap.

Also, insurance coverage cannot be obtained on employer insurance plans for the other person in the relationship. That's something that there is no possible legal remedy for.

jf - you are wrong, here.
Almost all major companies now have provision for domestic partners to be on the insurance plans.
Most have had this for years and it applies to same-sex couples, as well.

[aegsm76]

jf - just as a personal aside, will you and/or the church you attend teach/preach against the homosexual lifestyle, if gay marriage is sanctioned, legally?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's the deal, there are many devout Christians from various theological views that endorse gay marriage. Some are of liberal theological roots that see homosexuality as not being sin. Others are more libertarian, believing that in a free country two private individuals should be allowed to enter any private living arrangement they desire, not to mention that prohibiting "liberal Christians" from performing gay marriage is an infringement on religious liberty.

It's a thorny issue. No conservative or moderate Christian wants to "endorse" the gay lifestyle. But how do we balance liberty in a free country with personal religious convictions? For me, that's the struggle. I don't endorse the gay lifestyle. However, I know that not all religious points of view agree on the issue so it brings into play religious liberty... and private individuals desire to marry.

A more personal issue I face with regards to marriage is that my wife walked out on me almost three years ago. I've had people tell me that I'm not permitted to remarry and if I do I'm living in abomination. Some have told me that if my wife is to blame, I'm free to remarry but she isn't. However, the truth is that we both contributed to the failure of our marriage. Both of us. I cannot place all the blame on her. Also, I don't feel comfortable dragging her through the mud to a pastor to justify my remarriage, should I choose to remarry. This causes me to pause and ask the question..."What if the laws regarding marriage in the United States mirrored the opinion of those who believe that remarriage is always an adulterous abomination?" What if the laws prohibited me from marrying based on religious convictions of someone else?

Also, why do so many churches embrace families of a second marriage... even if the "offender" is the one coming to their church? I don't see us holding firm to the definition of straight marriage... are we allowing straight couples more grace and freedom than other Americans? I admit, I don't have all the answers.

It's a difficult issue that each individual will have to settle within their own hearts. Regardless of what anyone thinks of you, you alone will answer to God for what you believe AND why. Let everyone be convinced in his/her own heart. I know deeply spiritual and faithful Christians from all theological backgrounds that have various views on this issue. I don't berate them or judge them. They are my brothers and sisters. I know gay people who are also seeking to follow Jesus as best as they can. They are not my servants, they will not answer to me. They are Christ's. He alone can judge the thoughts and intents of the heart. He alone knows why we struggle with what we struggle with. And I for one would rather error on the side of grace, forgiveness, understanding, and love... than get to Heaven and discover that I wasn't gracious, forgiving, understanding, or loving enough. So I give the issue to the LORD.

Lastly, given the nature of our society, I don't see government limiting personal freedoms. Our nation has typically expanded human freedoms and human rights... even if human freedoms and human rights go beyond traditional morals. I've chosen not to loose sleep on it. I'll try to follow Christ, loving all my neighbors as myself, and praying that God has His perfect way in the hearts of His elect children.

I really cannot argue with this viewpoint even though I do not endorse this lifestyle. I just cannot be mean to them. It truly is between them and God.

[houston]

I am too stupid to understand politics. Anyway, I have a question.

Why are those of you who are for separation of church and state trying to control the state? Worse case scenario and the state mandates that you perform SSM, Christians should stop obtaining marriage licences and go common law.