Growing Faith

[HRea]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

There is no where in any of those accounts that says they received faith from hearing about the woman's miracle. One cannot receive "faith" or have their faith "increased" as the result of hearing testimonies. None of that story shows that.

Actually, if your definition of faith is consistent with Hebrews 11:1, then those of Gannesaret who received their miracle did demonstrate this. They didn't see the miracle, but hoped for the same.

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

Furthermore, that's before Pentecost, so really your talking about faith for a different dispensation... you must use post Pentecost writings and accounts to show how someone in the Church Age increases their faith... which is where Paul's writing comes in... "faith cometh by hearing... and hearing by the Word of God....

Our very foundation is based on the teachings of the apostles (NT) and prophets (OT), Jesus Christ Himself the chief cornerstone.

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

Where in post Pentecost Scriptures does the Bible say that faith grows by exercising your faith? That is a name it, claim it, Word of Faith teaching... and not Biblical. It sounds good, preaches good, etc... but it's not Biblical for the New Testament Church.

Really? Name it and claim teaching? What utter garbage in an attempt to disregard a sincere response.

Post-Pentecost scriptures? You've completely ignored Hebrews 5 (by reason of use) which proves that you must use your faith in order to bear/hear more of the Word; however, you might be more comfortable with the apostle James:

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

So how is it that disagreeing with your assertions means I'm either playing devil's advocate, or not understanding? That's the epitome of condescention.

It's not the disagreeing that I was in reference, it was that you were either ignoring the scriptures posted or you would simply wave your hand and reply nope, nope, nope.

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

The principles of doing something with it after you've been in the Word go without saying... of course... becaue the Bible says that faith without works is dead!!!!!! Come on... that's the basics... the discussion was a higher level than that, assuming anyone who would even want to grow their faith is going to walk in obedience.

Ah, you've stumbled onto an incredible mystery that many can say but don't fully understand. And it's not basic at all, it is the crux of the matter. Jesus, James, Paul, writer of Hebrews, Peter, et al, agree that if you want to grow your faith, increase your faith, or be able to bears the strong meat of the Word, you must do something with the Word that you've already heard.

Now, you've said over and again that no one has given you scripture, but I (as well as others) have given plenty. What do you say concerning Hebrews 5:12-14 and James 2:22?

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by HRea

Actually, if your definition of faith is consistent with Hebrews 11:1, then those of Gannesaret who received their miracle did demonstrate this. They didn't see the miracle, but hoped for the same.



Our very foundation is based on the teachings of the apostles (NT) and prophets (OT), Jesus Christ Himself the chief cornerstone.



Really? Name it and claim teaching? What utter garbage in an attempt to disregard a sincere response.

Post-Pentecost scriptures? You've completely ignored Hebrews 5 (by reason of use) which proves that you must use your faith in order to bear/hear more of the Word; however, you might be more comfortable with the apostle James:

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?



It's not the disagreeing that I was in reference, it was that you were either ignoring the scriptures posted or you would simply wave your hand and reply nope, nope, nope.



Ah, you've stumbled onto an incredible mystery that many can say but don't fully understand. And it's not basic at all, it is the crux of the matter. Jesus, James, Paul, writer of Hebrews, Peter, et al, agree that if you want to grow your faith, increase your faith, or be able to bears the strong meat of the Word, you must do something with the Word that you've already heard.

Now, you've said over and again that no one has given you scripture, but I (as well as others) have given plenty. What do you say concerning Hebrews 5:12-14 and James 2:22?

James Chapter 2 is not talking about increasing faith, or growing faith... but how to keep your faith from being dead.... that works must accompany faith. No where in that entire chapter is it teaching on how to increase your faith. In Verse 22, the Greek word there for "faith made perfect" is that Abraham's faith was accomplished... not increased. So, in my study of James 2, has nothing to do with increasing or growing faith.

Hebrews 5 especially verses 12 - 14 has to do with being mature in Christ..., mature in your walk with God and the things of God... but says nothing about faith... or increasing your faith, or growing your faith...


NEXT!!!!!!

[HRea]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

James Chapter 2 is not talking about increasing faith, or growing faith... but how to keep your faith from being dead.... that works must accompany faith. No where in that entire chapter is it teaching on how to increase your faith. In Verse 22, the Greek word there for "faith made perfect" is that Abraham's faith was accomplished... not increased. So, in my study of James 2, has nothing to do with increasing or growing faith.

Hebrews 5 especially verses 12 - 14 has to do with being mature in Christ..., mature in your walk with God and the things of God... but says nothing about faith... or increasing your faith, or growing your faith...

NEXT!!!!!!

Bzzzztttt!!! Misinterpretation used...go back three square...return to study.

In James 2:22, the primary meaning of the Greek word used for "made perfect" is "to complete", from the root, meaning "growth to completeness". James is using Abraham as an example to make a point that only by putting faith into action can it be "made complete" or "perfected". The Greek word used for "faith" in this verse is the same word used in Luke 17:5 when the disciples asked the Lord to "increase our faith". It is referring the same thing.

If I understand the point you're trying to make ("faith increases only by hearing the Word"), then Hebrews 5:14 all the more applies, especially to your stance. Only those who "by reason of use" can bear the "strong meat" (which is specifically referring to "deeper principles of the word of God"); those who have not done anything with what they've heard are addressed in Hebrews 5:12-13, not even being able to bear the "first principles of the oracles of God".

James 2:22 and Hebrews 5:12-14 very much apply to this discussion, and both address faith.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

James Chapter 2 is not talking about increasing faith, or growing faith... but how to keep your faith from being dead.... that works must accompany faith. No where in that entire chapter is it teaching on how to increase your faith. In Verse 22, the Greek word there for "faith made perfect" is that Abraham's faith was accomplished... not increased. So, in my study of James 2, has nothing to do with increasing or growing faith.

Hebrews 5 especially verses 12 - 14 has to do with being mature in Christ..., mature in your walk with God and the things of God... but says nothing about faith... or increasing your faith, or growing your faith...


NEXT!!!!!!

Wow, I'm really surprised that this seems to be
such an issue with you? I'd like to wish that faith goes
from 0 right to 100%, just by acquiring hearing,
but experience tells me otherwise?

In fact, faith seems to ebb and flow, another thing I don't really get;
but reflected in other testimonies? I've been at, say, 60% (prolly more like 6%? Just throwing out a #), or "faith that caused other believers to spontaneously say Amen," and then a couple weeks later, reading the Word all the while, found my faith at 40%...

And since this...is, I'd like to illuminate that faith may not come by
reading the Bible everyday, even memorizing it--that is not what the verse says (ok, extreme case? maybe not; prolly commonly attempted)--

"Faith comes by hearing..."
and since that is obv not quite the def of "hearing"
we are used to, it remains to define "hearing"
(which has prolly been done here)
and go from there?

Having had hearing spiritually demonstrated to me,
many times now, I'm curious how this might fit in to your model,
which I'm still thinking we're somehow arguing semantics.

ps, but I will say the "NEXT" thing is troubling?
You are the final word here? The very worst frame of mind
from which to...proceed, lol.
Or attempt to proceed--this indicates a closed mind, imo.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

ps, but I will say the "NEXT" thing is troubling?
You are the final word here? The very worst frame of mind
from which to...proceed, lol.
Or attempt to proceed--this indicates a closed mind, imo.

It's saying that I and the other poster will never agree... no need to keep beating the horse when he already stinks. I aint gonna change my mind and neither are they.... call it a closed mind, narrow mind, whatever you want... but sometimes we just need to realize that further discussion does nothing but tare down and people just need to part ways agreeing that they see things differently.

I never said I was the final word.... nice way to assume things and put words in my mouth... but I am the final word when it comes to my continuing to attempt to help someone understand my point of view... I get to decide when I want to leave the discussion, just like you do.... the discussion can continue... absolutely... but I get to decide when I move on.... like we all do.

[HRea]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

It's saying that I and the other poster will never agree... no need to keep beating the horse when he already stinks. I aint gonna change my mind and neither are they.... call it a closed mind, narrow mind, whatever you want... but sometimes we just need to realize that further discussion does nothing but tare down and people just need to part ways agreeing that they see things differently.

I never said I was the final word.... nice way to assume things and put words in my mouth... but I am the final word when it comes to my continuing to attempt to help someone understand my point of view... I get to decide when I want to leave the discussion, just like you do.... the discussion can continue... absolutely... but I get to decide when I move on.... like we all do.

Bro. Robbins, I apologize for getting a bit contentious. I'm guilty of becoming too passionate about my own point of view and get carried away sometimes. I agree, we do see this differently.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by HRea

Bro. Robbins, I apologize for getting a bit contentious. I'm guilty of becoming too passionate about my own point of view and get carried away sometimes. I agree, we do see this differently.

You have nothing to apologize for... nothing at all.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

It's saying that I and the other poster will never agree... no need to keep beating the horse when he already stinks. I aint gonna change my mind and neither are they.... call it a closed mind, narrow mind, whatever you want... but sometimes we just need to realize that further discussion does nothing but tare down and people just need to part ways agreeing that they see things differently.

I never said I was the final word.... nice way to assume things and put words in my mouth... but I am the final word when it comes to my continuing to attempt to help someone understand my point of view... I get to decide when I want to leave the discussion, just like you do.... the discussion can continue... absolutely... but I get to decide when I move on.... like we all do.

In other words, agree to disagree.
Show your brothers and sisters the same respect you would want from them when you don't see things eye to eye.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I believe as one grows in grace and in their knowledge of the word they will grow in faith.

Ah, well; that is not sitting very well w/BR, I guess

Originally Posted by Sam

In other words, agree to disagree.
Show your brothers and sisters the same respect you would want from them when you don't see things eye to eye.

Amen to that, as far as it goes? I posted my reaction, my opinion, to "NEXT,"
and got a reply. I leave it to (you), a witness to judge. Or, can we agree to disagree that satan is now our lord?

I'm sure I come off as abrasive to many here; and to that I would like to reply that when I want to be surrounded by people that whole-heartedly agree with me, I'll go to a bar and buy the house a round.

I would never go to...BR's or Falla's church, say, and start talking how my faith has grown outside of reading my Bible, or give my opinion about Reagan--but we are in a venue designed for airing just such issues.

While I see no reason to deliberately denigrate a person here,
and don't mean to do this--I deliberately reply to posts, and not people--if one is unconsciously identifying with their opinion (or in other words, if an alt opinion is going to offend you), then I would say you came to the right place!

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Better yet, 2 or 3.