Quote:
Originally Posted by HRea
I agree. Western Christianity is in danger of becoming apathetic toward the kingdom of Jesus Christ. True discipleship requires rejecting the things of this world which will require great sacrifice on the part of the disciple. This is where it becomes difficult.
Getting Faith equals a response to hearing for the first time (ie hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ, or listening to someone relate a testimony concerning a realized possibility within the kingdom). This is why I included a short side trip about the woman with the issue of blood and the men of Gannesaret. They heard about the woman's miracle, responded, and received healings of their own.
|
There is no where in any of those accounts that says they received faith from hearing about the woman's miracle. One cannot receive "faith" or have their faith "increased" as the result of hearing testimonies. None of that story shows that. Furthermore, that's before Pentecost, so really your talking about faith for a different dispensation... you must use post Pentecost writings and accounts to show how someone in the Church Age increases their faith... which is where Paul's writing comes in... "faith cometh by hearing... and hearing by the Word of God....
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRea
Growing Faith is exercising the faith you already have.
Hearing and doing is the way we grow.
|
Where in post Pentecost Scriptures does the Bible say that faith grows by exercising your faith? That is a name it, claim it, Word of Faith teaching... and not Biblical. It sounds good, preaches good, etc... but it's not Biblical for the New Testament Church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRea
I marvel at your response; either you are playing devil's advocate and being contentious as a means to provoke a discussion, or you're not actually seeking an answer and are dismissive of any of the scriptures posted. In either case, you're working very hard not to understand the responses given. Your constant referral to "hearing the Word" as the only means of growing faith shows a lack of understanding in what that truly means.
There are 3 outcomes that the Bible teaches about "hearing the Word" (and Word hear is specific to the Word of God - not testimonies or accounts):
1. Outright rejection - this leads to damnation
2. Hearing, acceptance, but no response - this leads to becoming dull of hearing and necessitates the need for foundational teaching to be repeated over and again. There is no forward progress and no growth.
3. Hearing, acceptance, and a response - this leads to our faith being increased and our ability to hear greater teachings and mysteries.
Jesus admonishing His disciples in Luke 17, and the passage in Hebrews 5 makes it very clear that "hearing the word" is not enough to increase your faith. Those that are hearers only are called weak, unskillful, and unprofitable servants. |
So how is it that disagreeing with your assertions means I'm either playing devil's advocate, or not understanding? That's the epitome of condescention. I totally understand where your coming from, I just don't agree. Your last quote above all has to do with obedience of the Word.... not directly with faith. This thread... though you got off topic quite a bit... has to do with Faith, and how to grow faith. There is only way to "gain faith" other than the measure of faith given at conversion.... and that is by being in God's Word.
The principles of doing something with it after you've been in the Word go without saying... of course... becaue the Bible says that faith without works is dead!!!!!! Come on... that's the basics... the discussion was a higher level than that, assuming anyone who would even want to grow their faith is going to walk in obedience.
The biggest disagreement I had, where you came in and still didn't disprove.... is that exercising faith cannot grow faith.. and there are no NT Scriptures that teach it. Provide all the pre Pentecost antectdotal accounts you want... none say that someone's faith grew as a result... and there are no post Pentecost teachings that teach any other way to 'get faith' other than being in God's Word.
Threaded Mode
