Creflo Dollar

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

When we bought our house, one of the upstairs rooms was first designated as a play room for our son. He was 4 at the time.

This play room was a mess of messes one day and we had people coming over to see the house. So we told him he needed to clean the play room up, which he had already done when we had asked before. He said he didn't want to. His mother made it clear to him he needed to clean it. I went outside to do some work outside, and when I came back in maybe 20 minutes later, he was standing in the play room still refusing to clean it up. So I asked him what he was supposed to be doing. He said he was supposed to be cleaning. I asked why he wasn't doing it and he again said he didn't want to. So I told him clearly that he was not listening to his mother and I and that rebellion would not be tolerated. I was going out to finsih up outside and if I came back in he had better be cleaning or he was getting a spanking.

So, I come back in maybe 15 or 20 later an dhe was still just standing in the room not cleaning. I asked him why he wasn't cleaning and he said he didn't want to. I reminded him of what I said about the spanking and he sai dhe didn't want a spanking. So I told him he was getting a spanking because he was being disobediant. So he got spanked. Then I got him to stop crying so had and told him he needed to clean the room. He said he didn't want to. So I told him he needed to clean the room and that if I came back and he wasn't cleaning, he was going to get another spanking.

He did not clean, so he got the same speech and a second spanking. He STILL said he didn't want to clean and wouldn't do it. So, he was given a THIRD spanking. A few minutes after this he finally decided it was time to clean up the room.

Using our words didn't convince him to do what was asked. Threats of not getting his toys didn't. Rebellion reared up in this sweet 4 year olds heart and it was not goign to be talked down. It had to be squashed.

Since that time we have not seen anywhere near that spirit of rebellion out of him. Say what you will, but I believe it is because he learned the hard way that we would not tolerate such attitude from him and that any such attitude would be met with force.

Nitehawk, even though we have rarely spanked our children, I'm NOT opposed to spanking, especially in the context of disciplining a rebellious child. I'm still confused as to why ANY Christian parent would support Creflo Dollar or any other Christian slapping or choking their child. A spanking and a beating are two different things. My husband was raised in an abusive home--they were whipped with a belt until blood ran down their legs, and whipped until they STOPPED crying, among other things. That's not "spanking"; that's abuse. Even if it's for a "good reason", it's still abuse.

It just baffles me when these news stories come up and it's like all parents who favor corporal punishment have to show solidarity for the parent over the child-victim, even if the punishment is obviously too harsh. Why? Denouncing violence and extreme behavior doesn't mean you have to denounce corporal punishment.

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Nitehawk, even though we have rarely spanked our children, I'm NOT opposed to spanking, especially in the context of disciplining a rebellious child. I'm still confused as to why ANY Christian parent would support Creflo Dollar or any other Christian slapping or choking their child. A spanking and a beating are two different things. My husband was raised in an abusive home--they were whipped with a belt until blood ran down their legs, and whipped until they STOPPED crying, among other things. That's not "spanking"; that's abuse. Even if it's for a "good reason", it's still abuse.

It just baffles me when these news stories come up and it's like all parents who favor corporal punishment have to show solidarity for the parent over the child-victim, even if the punishment is obviously too harsh. Why? Denouncing violence and extreme behavior doesn't mean you have to denounce corporal punishment.

Likely because we don't see the problem with what Creflo did. When my son is 15 I hope he has been taught and raised in such a way that he wouldn't act in such a way. However, if he does you can be sure he will have to go through dad in order to leave the hosue to go to some ungodly party. If he chooses to directly rebel and disobey me when I tell him he is not leaving and going to such place, he will have to go through me. If that ends with him being slapped, punched or tossed back into the house...so be it.

Children don't get to run the show and tell their parents who is in charge and who is going where.

It's funny. There was a day when boys and girls would stand up to mom or dad as if it were a rite of passage, and when mom or dad knocked them on their behind and showed them who was boss it was just considered the way things are. That was how you dealt with a teenager who got too big for their britches. Now the parent is supposed to just allow teenagers to just do as they please because "you can't abuse your child". Nonsense.

I suppose I support Creflo because I know too many teenagers who think they have a right to rebel and disobey parents and that they can just hide behind pathetic laws that prevent parents form putting them in their place. If Creflo told her she wasn't allowed to go to that party, and she was brazen enough to blow off his words and attempt to walk out right in front of him, then I don't care if he slapped her, choked her or dragged her by her hair back into the house and made it very clear to her that HE was the one in charge.

I bet she has no problem living it up on daddies millions. well...then she should have no trouble following daddies rules. She is the villain in the story, not Creflo for being a strong dad who will not be pushed around by a bratty kid.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Nitehawk, even though we have rarely spanked our children, I'm NOT opposed to spanking, especially in the context of disciplining a rebellious child. I'm still confused as to why ANY Christian parent would support Creflo Dollar or any other Christian slapping or choking their child. A spanking and a beating are two different things. My husband was raised in an abusive home--they were whipped with a belt until blood ran down their legs, and whipped until they STOPPED crying, among other things. That's not "spanking"; that's abuse. Even if it's for a "good reason", it's still abuse.

It just baffles me when these news stories come up and it's like all parents who favor corporal punishment have to show solidarity for the parent over the child-victim, even if the punishment is obviously too harsh. Why? Denouncing violence and extreme behavior doesn't mean you have to denounce corporal punishment.

Ya, many many moons ago my dad was one who first started a spanking for whatever the reason was but then continued until you STOPPED crying. Never understood that to this day other than it probably turned into a weird power trip.

But guess what. I am an adult now and NO ONE can hit me for not going to church. Ha ha ha!
(I bring this up because by this time in my life I wasn't spanked so much as thrown around and beat with the belt -all to keep the image of the perfect nuclear church family attending services 4-6 times a week. So the idea that the rebellion was knocked out of me is... how shall I put it.... a load of bull excrement.)

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya, many many moons ago my dad was one who first started a spanking for whatever the reason was but then continued until you STOPPED crying. Never understood that to this day other than it probably turned into a weird power trip.

But guess what. I am an adult now and NO ONE can hit me for not going to church. Ha ha ha!
(I bring this up because by this time in my life I wasn't spanked so much as thrown around and beat with the belt -all to keep the image of the perfect nuclear church family attending services 4-6 times a week. So the idea that the rebellion was knocked out of me is... how shall I put it.... a load of bull excrement.)

I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that what was done to you is the norm or justifiable.

The pendulum was just as far to the right in your situation as it is to the left in the "don't spank, just talk to your kids" folks. I prefer the middle.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

When we bought our house, one of the upstairs rooms was first designated as a play room for our son. He was 4 at the time.

This play room was a mess of messes one day and we had people coming over to see the house. So we told him he needed to clean the play room up, which he had already done when we had asked before. He said he didn't want to. His mother made it clear to him he needed to clean it. I went outside to do some work outside, and when I came back in maybe 20 minutes later, he was standing in the play room still refusing to clean it up. So I asked him what he was supposed to be doing. He said he was supposed to be cleaning. I asked why he wasn't doing it and he again said he didn't want to. So I told him clearly that he was not listening to his mother and I and that rebellion would not be tolerated. I was going out to finsih up outside and if I came back in he had better be cleaning or he was getting a spanking.

So, I come back in maybe 15 or 20 later an dhe was still just standing in the room not cleaning. I asked him why he wasn't cleaning and he said he didn't want to. I reminded him of what I said about the spanking and he sai dhe didn't want a spanking. So I told him he was getting a spanking because he was being disobediant. So he got spanked. Then I got him to stop crying so had and told him he needed to clean the room. He said he didn't want to. So I told him he needed to clean the room and that if I came back and he wasn't cleaning, he was going to get another spanking.

He did not clean, so he got the same speech and a second spanking. He STILL said he didn't want to clean and wouldn't do it. So, he was given a THIRD spanking. A few minutes after this he finally decided it was time to clean up the room.

Using our words didn't convince him to do what was asked. Threats of not getting his toys didn't. Rebellion reared up in this sweet 4 year olds heart and it was not goign to be talked down. It had to be squashed.

Since that time we have not seen anywhere near that spirit of rebellion out of him. Say what you will, but I believe it is because he learned the hard way that we would not tolerate such attitude from him and that any such attitude would be met with force.

The difference is that your child is FOUR years old. I don't disagree with spanking a child if that is your last resort - if you've tried other tings first, which it sounds like you did. But as I said before, spanking is only effective up to a certain age. When a child is 4, their attention span is not a week long. So you can't ground them for a week. By the end of the day, they will have forgotten why they were grounded anyway. You have to consider two things when disciplining a child 1) the age and attention span of the child. and 2) the punishment should ALWAYS fit the crime.

I have done home daycare for the past 27 years. I've had times when I had a child who flat out refused to help pick up toys. The way that I have handled these situations which has worked in every single case is this:
1) I explain to the rebellious little one that if they do not do their share in picking up toys, then they will not be allowed to play with the toys for the rest of the day. Make sure they understand that clearly!
2) I give all kinds of positive remarks to the ones who are busy doing what they've been told to do, completely ignoring the one who is not helping.
3) When the others get to play again later, I make sure I am in the room and I remind them consistently that they are not allowed to touch any of the toys. They don't have to sit on a chair or anything like that. But they sure hate having to just walk around the room watching the others play and have fun.

Never had to do that twice with the same child.
But if they had continued to rebel in that way, then yes, I would have looked for more drastic measures. On the other hand, one thing I tell every parent who interviews to come here is that while I do on VERY rare occasions spank a child, it is ONLY ever because they have done something that is dangerous either for them or for another person. Otherwise, I've found that I can deal with things and actually teach them better by using non-physical means. Maybe that's just me.

But I hold firm to the stand that I would NOT lay my hands on a 15 year old. If things get that far out of hand, call Children's Services and ask for their help. They can come out and threaten to put your child in foster care (we were foster parents. I know this can happen! I've seen it work many times). There ARE other ways to discipline - much more effective ways.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya, many many moons ago my dad was one who first started a spanking for whatever the reason was but then continued until you STOPPED crying. Never understood that to this day other than it probably turned into a weird power trip.

But guess what. I am an adult now and NO ONE can hit me for not going to church. Ha ha ha!
(I bring this up because by this time in my life I wasn't spanked so much as thrown around and beat with the belt -all to keep the image of the perfect nuclear church family attending services 4-6 times a week. So the idea that the rebellion was knocked out of me is... how shall I put it.... a load of bull excrement.)

Or...if you got a punishment you did not deserve because you were blamed for something you did not do. If you started crying because you knew it was unfair punishment, your daddy would say stop crying or I will give you something (whipping) to cry about....