Unity in the Body of Christ

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Is it God's will that you achieve unity?

In my opinion, it is God's will for His people to have unity among themselves. Because we are human, I doubt we ever will. It bothered the Apostle Paul that there were divisions in the Church at Corinth. He addressed this 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 and 3:1-5.

In Ephesians 4:1-16 Paul exhorted the folks in Ephesus to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit. He says that we all have the same Lord and we have all been placed/baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit in verses 4-6. He also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:13 that we were all placed/baptized into one Body by the Holy Spirit. In verses 11-16 Paul says that God has placed apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers in the Body until we come in the unity of the faith and grow up into perfection. That's why I think we will always have those 5 offices in the church because we will not reach perfection/maturity/completion until the rapture.

[Sam]

I think unity is more of an attitude than anything else. If we recognize that we have differences of opinion among us but respect one another and accept them as brothers and sisters, and cooperate with one another, in my opinion, that is unity.

Let me give you a couple of examples.
1. I belong to a group called FGBMFI (Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International). At a recent breakfast meeting, our president asked us all to tell which church we belong to. We had 12 different churches represented there that day, yet we could fellowship and worship God together. One of the men there that morning goes to a Roman Catholic Church. He was baptized Roman Catholic and educated Roman Catholic, and believes Roman Catholic doctrine. Yet he is saved and has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. He and I don't agree theologically on several things, yet we consider each other brothers in Christ. At FGBMFI we have had speakers from different denominations including Roman Catholic and Baptist. To me this is a good example of the unity of the Body.

2. Ordinarily on Wednesday mornings I attend a prayer meeting at the First Presbyterian Church in Hamilton, Ohio. This meeting has been going on for 50 years. The woman who leads it is 92 years old. I don't know where all they have met over the years but they have been there in that building for quite a few years. About 20-25 people meet there each week and maybe one or two of them are members of that church. The rest of us come from several different churches. When the current pastor came to that church as pastor, the group had already been meeting there for some time. He didn't know much about us and I've heard him say, "I didn't know if you would lay hands on me and pray over me in tongues and hand me a snake, or what." Pastor John has not, as far as I know, been baptized in the Spirit. He does come down to the prayer meeting once in a while, sits in a chair and asks us to pray for him. He has done this when his brother was sick. He has done this when the church was facing a financial crisis. And he has done this when he was seeking wisdom on certain issues. Nobody has ever handed him a snake but they do pray over him in tongues and prophecy. To me this prayer meeting is an example of the unity of the Body.

3. Last summer, we had a prayer meeting on Main Street in downtown Hamilton, Ohio. Ministers from various churches/organizations/denominations prayed for the city and for a move of God there. The prayer meeting was organized by H-HOP (Hamilton House of Prayer, a few people who meet in various places to pray for Hamilton) and by Offerings/Holy Grounds Cafe (a restaurant ministry a couple doors down from the Gazebo and park where the prayer meeting was held). I posted a link for that here last year. I was one of the persons who prayed. I prayed Psalm 51 for the city of Hamilton, for Butler County, for Hamilton County, and for SW Ohio. The man who heads up H-HOP attends the Hamilton Dream Center where I go. He and I are elders there. The couple who operate Holy Grounds Cafe are Felix and Kim. He is an ordained Baptist minister. She is ordained in our church. I was one of the ministers who signed her ordination papers and who laid hands on her at her ordination). I honestly don't know if either or both of them have been baptized in the Spirit. This is another example, in my opinion, of the unity of the Body.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Sam

In my opinion, it is God's will for His people to have unity among themselves. Because we are human, I doubt we ever will. It bothered the Apostle Paul that there were divisions in the Church at Corinth. He addressed this 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 and 3:1-5.

In Ephesians 4:1-16 Paul exhorted the folks in Ephesus to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit. He says that we all have the same Lord and we have all been placed/baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit in verses 4-6. He also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:13 that we were all placed/baptized into one Body by the Holy Spirit. In verses 11-16 Paul says that God has placed apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers in the Body until we come in the unity of the faith and grow up into perfection. That's why I think we will always have those 5 offices in the church because we will not reach perfection/maturity/completion until the rapture.

So, Jesus asked for unity (John 17; note especially v. 20 -- He's praying for you), it is in accordance with God's will, and it won't happen. Will you be removing 1 John 5:14-15 from your Bible?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Timmy

So, Jesus asked for unity (John 17; note especially v. 20 -- He's praying for you), it is in accordance with God's will, and it won't happen. Will you be removing 1 John 5:14-15 from your Bible?

wasn't planning on removing any verses from 1 John 5 from my Bible.

God's will does not always get done.
God limits Himself by several things. One of them is our free will. God wills that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2: 4; Peter 3:9) but not everyone will.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Sam

wasn't planning on removing any verses from 1 John 5 from my Bible.

God's will does not always get done.
God limits Himself by several things. One of them is our free will. God wills that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2: 4; Peter 3:9) but not everyone will.

But you don't believe the promise in 1 John 5:14-15 will be kept. Why not remove that passage?

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

But you don't believe the promise in 1 John 5:14-15 will be kept. Why not remove that passage?

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

I know everyone here is just aghast at my audacity in suggesting that there maybe should be some changes to the canon. It's probably a sin. But when the canon was under development, the exact same thing happened over and over. Candidate gospels were thrown out. Another apocalypse book besides The Revelation of John (at least one I know of) was rejected. Even some writings of Paul were left out. Ever heard of 3rd Corinthians?

Anyway, if God has in fact closed the door to the canon (and you must have some way of knowing that), you're fine. Go with what you have.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Timmy

But you don't believe the promise in 1 John 5:14-15 will be kept. Why not remove that passage?

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

When we pray,
"Thy Kingdom come,
Thy will be done...."
as Jesus instructed us
we know that God hears us because we are asking according to His will.
And we are personally receiving the answer because if we really mean what we are praying i.e. we are praying, not parroting, we yield ourselves to the Lord. We are voluntarily submitting to God's rule or reign (His kingdom or kingship) and the prayer is being answered. As far as other folks, we can pray this prayer for them --that they will respond to the call of God by yielding themselves to Him--but He will not force Himself on them. This is what I was trying to say when I said that God limits Himself by our free will.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Sam

When we pray,
"Thy Kingdom come,
Thy will be done...."
as Jesus instructed us
we know that God hears us because we are asking according to His will.
And we are personally receiving the answer because if we really mean what we are praying i.e. we are praying, not parroting, we yield ourselves to the Lord. We are voluntarily submitting to God's rule or reign (His kingdom or kingship) and the prayer is being answered. As far as other folks, we can pray this prayer for them --that they will respond to the call of God by yielding themselves to Him--but He will not force Himself on them. This is what I was trying to say when I said that God limits Himself by our free will.

Soooooooo, is that promise kept or not?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Soooooooo, is that promise kept or not?

yes and no