Not sure where to go from this point...

[bbyrd009]

Amen.
It seems to me that, in brief,
if the guy's stance on certain spiritual issues,
preached from the pulpit, is no longer
lining up with what one believes,
then what is there to discuss?

Any very fundamental differences, discussed,
can only bring strife, imo.
This is an unction from God to find one's
next Right Pastor to me.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Amen.
It seems to me that, in brief,
if the guy's stance on certain spiritual issues,
preached from the pulpit, is no longer
lining up with what one believes,
then what is there to discuss?

Any very fundamental differences, discussed,
can only bring strife, imo.
This is an unction from God to find one's
next Right Pastor to me.

Please pardon me, but it is easy to see where you are coming from when we consider that Churchanity as a whole is over 31 Flavors.

That if a situation crops up we just leave, and resume our search for the ever allusive holy grail of our own personal preferences.

I see where Evenuntodeath tells us that she was more an individualist, than someone to go along with the rank and file.

Yet, any religion which is built on a clergy, laity structure, works to bring clergy, as well as devotees into some sort of "one mind, and one accord" as is presented in the Bible.

Eastern Religion blows away Christianity in the subject of conformity. While we may have foot washing, we sure don't have to kiss the feet of the Guru, or Swamiji or prostrate oneself before the Buddhist monk.

Sri Rama Krishna once told a devotee to stick his head in a bucket of water until he was tapped on the back by Sri Rama Krishna.

But that's religion! I'm not saying that we should have brutal unreasonable commands given to us, but let's first understand that when we come to any religion we are going to deal with situations which at first may not understand in totality, even when shown, book, chapter, and verse. If the church family, and pastor we hold in high regard, that high regard most of been formulated through some sort of relationship over time.

Now it should be noted Evenuntodeath felt like she was back in high school? In my own personal opinion, didn't she leave a while ago? Now to be completely fair to Evenuntodeath, does she feel like she is just being told, instead of taught? Hence, a talking to the pastor who is held in high regard should be in order.

We are talking about three years, three years of building a relationship which led Evenuntodeath to view the "pastor" with high regard, that is why the issue for a discussion could posssibly ease the thoughts of Evenuntodeath?

Hey, all I'm saying here is three years relationships should of been established to the point that individuals can sit down and clear all doubts between each other.

Yet, with somewhere around 33,000 denominations in the United States you can find something to soothe the fevered brow.


Yet, three years is a bit of time, and in those three years the poster made the comment that she had high regards for the pastor?

Again, that's just how I see it with the immensely meager amount of information I have on this situation

[Evenuntodeath]

Evang. Benincasa:

Yes, a part of me feels as if I am being told rather than taught on certain issues. Which is why I brought up the cosmetics, tv. and movies. But another gripe of mine is there seems certain standards which we "just don't do" rather than give biblical reference as to why we shouldn't do them. That is my main issue.

For example cosmetics. In my church not once has anyone sited biblical basis for why women should not use makeup. All the biblical references that would imply makeup is not a good idea I learned from the internet. In my church, its more along the lines of "you just don't need them". The reason the first lady sited was, "makeup makes you look old" I mean really?! Surely they can come up with better reasons than this.

Now the movie theater. It was not my pastor who said this, it was a minister/bible study teacher. However, I know that anything taught by the ministers has to be ok'd by the pastor first. In the bible study, I did ask him why going to the movie theater was not ok. He gave me his reasons, one of them being "appearance and credibility". In other words, it just doesn't look good for a christian to be seen at the movies. After that, I closed my mouth and let him continue with the bible study. The bible says women are to listen quietly, right? At the time, I didn't want to get into a drawn out debate over scripture and disrupt the bible study, for one, its very unladylike and unchristian. But privately I must say I have an issue with that line of reasoning. The biblical scriptures I've read say things should be done from the heart and not for the purpose of appearing holy or righteous.

In their defense, let me just say this. Both my pastor and his wife were raised in UPC. My pastor is a 3rd generation and his wife is 2nd. Sometimes I get the feeling some of these standards taught have less to do with scripture and more to do with how they were taught by their parents, pastor as well as following the guidelines of UPCI. Sometimes we do things out of habit and routine without any good reason as to why we do them(which is why I'm seeing that these standards may be a little easier for pentes who were raised in church, rather than those who came from a different or non religious background).

Right, ok, I can sympathize with that. But do they realize that someone like myself who was not raised in church needs a little more than "that's just the way it is"??

Now, do I have an issue with all the standards of UPC? No. I dress modestly, and I was never much a jewelry wearer even before I was saved so that is not a personal issue for me. I try not to cut my hair(still working on that), and I try to embrace the place God has ordained for women in the church.

But there comes a point where I question whether we are really doing all this to be holy or simply trying to earn salvation. A part of me feels like " what more do you want from me"?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath

Evang. Benincasa:

Yes, a part of me feels as if I am being told rather than taught on certain issues. Which is why I brought up the cosmetics, tv. and movies. But another gripe of mine is there seems certain standards which we "just don't do" rather than give biblical reference as to why we shouldn't do them. That is my main issue.

For example cosmetics. In my church not once has anyone sited biblical basis for why women should not use makeup. All the biblical references that would imply makeup is not a good idea I learned from the internet. Its more along the lines of "you just don't need them". The reason the first lady sited was, "makeup makes you look old" I mean really?! Surely they can come up with better reasons than this.

Now the movie theater. It was not my pastor who said this, it was a minister/bible study teacher. However, I know that anything taught by the ministers has to be ok'd by the pastor first. In the bible study, I did ask him why going to the movie theater was not ok. He gave me his reasons, one of them being "appearance and credibility". In other words, it just doesn't look good for a christian to be seen at the movies. After that, I closed my mouth and let him continue with the bible study. The bible says women are to listen quietly, right? At the time, I didn't want to get into a drawn out debate over scripture and disrupt the bible study, for one, its very unladylike and unchristian. But privately I must say I have an issue with that line of reasoning. The biblical scriptures I've read say things should be done from the heart and not for the purpose of appearing holy or righteous.

In their defense, let me just say this. Both my pastor and his wife were raised in UPC. My pastor is a 3rd generation and his wife is 2nd. Sometimes I get the feeling some of these standards taught have less to do with scripture and more to do with how they were taught by their parents, pastor as well as following the guidelines of UPCI. Sometimes we do things out of habit and routine without any good reason as to why we do them

Right, ok, I can sympathize with that. But do they realize that someone like myself who was not raised in church needs a little more than "that's just the way it is"??

Now, do I have an issue with all the standards of UPC? No. I dress modestly, and I was never much a jewelry wearer even before I was saved so that is not a personal issue for me. I try not to cut my hair(still working on that), and I try to embrace the place God has ordained for women in the church.

But there comes a point where I question whether we are really doing all this to be holy or simply trying to earn salvation. A part of me feels like " what more do you want from me"?

Excellent observation. My guess is that even tho many won't admit it, or may not even realize it.....it's the earning salvation motivation that is winning the race.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath

Evang. Benincasa:

Yes, a part of me feels as if I am being told rather than taught on certain issues. Which is why I brought up the cosmetics, tv. and movies. But another gripe of mine is there seems certain standards which we "just don't do" rather than give biblical reference as to why we shouldn't do them. That is my main issue.

For example cosmetics. In my church not once has anyone sited biblical basis for why women should not use makeup. All the biblical references that would imply makeup is not a good idea I learned from the internet. In my church, its more along the lines of "you just don't need them". The reason the first lady sited was, "makeup makes you look old" I mean really?! Surely they can come up with better reasons than this.

Now the movie theater. It was not my pastor who said this, it was a minister/bible study teacher. However, I know that anything taught by the ministers has to be ok'd by the pastor first. In the bible study, I did ask him why going to the movie theater was not ok. He gave me his reasons, one of them being "appearance and credibility". In other words, it just doesn't look good for a christian to be seen at the movies. After that, I closed my mouth and let him continue with the bible study. The bible says women are to listen quietly, right? At the time, I didn't want to get into a drawn out debate over scripture and disrupt the bible study, for one, its very unladylike and unchristian. But privately I must say I have an issue with that line of reasoning. The biblical scriptures I've read say things should be done from the heart and not for the purpose of appearing holy or righteous.

In their defense, let me just say this. Both my pastor and his wife were raised in UPC. My pastor is a 3rd generation and his wife is 2nd. Sometimes I get the feeling some of these standards taught have less to do with scripture and more to do with how they were taught by their parents, pastor as well as following the guidelines of UPCI. Sometimes we do things out of habit and routine without any good reason as to why we do them(which is why I'm seeing that these standards may be a little easier for pentes who were raised in church, rather than those who came from a different or non religious background).

Right, ok, I can sympathize with that. But do they realize that someone like myself who was not raised in church needs a little more than "that's just the way it is"??

Now, do I have an issue with all the standards of UPC? No. I dress modestly, and I was never much a jewelry wearer even before I was saved so that is not a personal issue for me. I try not to cut my hair(still working on that), and I try to embrace the place God has ordained for women in the church.

But there comes a point where I question whether we are really doing all this to be holy or simply trying to earn salvation. A part of me feels like " what more do you want from me"?

Sister thank you for the nice post.

Now, to stay with my original thoughts on this topic it really doesn't have much to do with cosmetics, movie theaters, or MKUltra...I mean...television

What I'm dealing with in this thread, is about church friends, brothers, sisters, church families, leaders who helped build the church family. People who you said you hold in high regards. If you never said this, I probably wouldn't of gave the thread much thought.

Sis, let's look at this quote....

"It was not my pastor who said this"

The pastor didn't know, but since we are a consumer minded nation we rarely want to go to speak to management, or call, or write the manufacturer, or restaurant owner.

Some people get bad service, or have a bad experience, and NEVER return.

While that may fly at Lambert's Cafe, it doesn't work for an experience that requires something a little more than getting offended about what is, and what's not on the ban list.

Sister, someone needs to be the bigger kid in the sandbox, and refrain from taking our bat and ball and leaving.

If the rest of the flock can't produce book, chapter, and verse, then the pastor should be able. But, at least give peace a chance, who cares about cosmetics, and television, if we can't be at higher level of love, and respect.

That's to be highly regarded.

If you leave then at least you took it to the brother, whom you held in high regard.

Because what is the use of having complaints about certain issues, and leave the other things undone.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Please pardon me, but it is easy to see where you are coming from when we consider that Churchanity as a whole is over 31 Flavors.

That if a situation crops up we just leave, and resume our search for the ever allusive holy grail of our own personal preferences.

I see where Evenuntodeath tells us that she was more an individualist, than someone to go along with the rank and file.

Yet, any religion which is built on a clergy...

Ah, well, I see we are coming from different povs,
as I detest religion. While I would not counsel someone to jump ship
if they are where God wants them, but just being obstinate to the Spirit,
I believe whole-heartedly that every believer has a Right Pastor for them,
and that the time should come when that Pastor has taught you all they can, and one should then start getting indications of this, if they can but hear them.

At the end of the day, the Spirit should certainly be one's guide, imo.