Modesty Myth

[MissBrattified]

IMO:

No, a woman is not directly responsible for a man's lust, but she is responsible to God for her own licentious behavior. God will hold the man responsible for not keeping his thoughts and actions in subjection and He will also hold the woman responsible for her immodesty. Ergo, while one may not be culpable for the sins of another, they are still responsible for their own sins, and immodesty is ungodly.

In our teen class, we recently talked about the works of the flesh, and I found this definition of "lascivious" to be interesting:

las·civ·i·ous
adjective
1.inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd: a lascivious, girl-chasing old man.
2.arousing sexual desire: lascivious photographs.
3.indicating sexual interest or expressive of lust or lewdness: a lascivious gesture.

This definition has lasciviousness working from any direction; it can be lusting, and it can be inciting lust. It can be indicating or expressing lust, or having an inclination toward lascivious behavior.

The linked article is a trite, cursory commentary on the issue of modesty, and fairly unimpressive.

While I don't think we are directly responsible for the sins of other people, it would also be shortsighted (not to mention unbiblical) to think we lack the ability to cause our brothers to stumble. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the actions of another person--even when wrong--don't excuse our own sins. Ergo, a woman dressing immodestly does not excuse the sinful thoughts of a man, but God won't excuse her either.

There is no myth about modesty. God expects women to be modest in their dress.

I Timothy 2:9-10 - with Greek definitions

"In like manner also, that women adorn [put in proper order, decorate, garnish, trim]
themselves in modest [orderly, decorous, of good behavior, well arranged, seemly, modest]
apparel [costume, apparel, a lowering/letting down, a garment let down, dress, attire],
with shamefacedness [(through the idea of downcast eyes) bashfulness (toward men), modesty or awe (towards God), reverence, regard for others, respect]
and sobriety [soundness of mind, sanity or self-control],
not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

This passage addresses outward--appearance, actions and words. A godly woman wears modest dress, is sober, has self-control, is orderly, bashful toward men, has regard for others, and does good works--among other things.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

IMO:

No, a woman is not directly responsible for a man's lust, but she is responsible to God for her own licentious behavior. God will hold the man responsible for not keeping his thoughts and actions in subjection and He will also hold the woman responsible for her immodesty. Ergo, while one may not be culpable for the sins of another, they are still responsible for their own sins, and immodesty is ungodly.

In our teen class, we recently talked about the works of the flesh, and I found this definition of "lascivious" to be interesting:

las·civ·i·ous
adjective
1.inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd: a lascivious, girl-chasing old man.
2.arousing sexual desire: lascivious photographs.
3.indicating sexual interest or expressive of lust or lewdness: a lascivious gesture.

This definition has lasciviousness working from any direction; it can be lusting, and it can be inciting lust. It can be indicating or expressing lust, or having an inclination toward lascivious behavior.

The linked article is a trite, cursory commentary on the issue of modesty, and fairly unimpressive.

While I don't think we are directly responsible for the sins of other people, it would also be shortsighted (not to mention unbiblical) to think we lack the ability to cause our brothers to stumble. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the actions of another person--even when wrong--don't excuse our own sins. Ergo, a woman dressing immodestly does not excuse the sinful thoughts of a man, but God won't excuse her either.

There is no myth about modesty. God expects women to be modest in their dress.

I Timothy 2:9-10 - with Greek definitions

"In like manner also, that women adorn [put in proper order, decorate, garnish, trim]
themselves in modest [orderly, decorous, of good behavior, well arranged, seemly, modest]
apparel [costume, apparel, a lowering/letting down, a garment let down, dress, attire],
with shamefacedness [(through the idea of downcast eyes) bashfulness (toward men), modesty or awe (towards God), reverence, regard for others, respect]
and sobriety [soundness of mind, sanity or self-control],
not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

This passage addresses outward--appearance, actions and words. A godly woman wears modest dress, is sober, has self-control, is orderly, bashful toward men, has regard for others, and does good works--among other things.

[J4Truth]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

IMO:

No, a woman is not directly responsible for a man's lust, but she is responsible to God for her own licentious behavior. God will hold the man responsible for not keeping his thoughts and actions in subjection and He will also hold the woman responsible for her immodesty. Ergo, while one may not be culpable for the sins of another, they are still responsible for their own sins, and immodesty is ungodly.

In our teen class, we recently talked about the works of the flesh, and I found this definition of "lascivious" to be interesting:

las·civ·i·ous
adjective
1.inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd: a lascivious, girl-chasing old man.
2.arousing sexual desire: lascivious photographs.
3.indicating sexual interest or expressive of lust or lewdness: a lascivious gesture.

This definition has lasciviousness working from any direction; it can be lusting, and it can be inciting lust. It can be indicating or expressing lust, or having an inclination toward lascivious behavior.

The linked article is a trite, cursory commentary on the issue of modesty, and fairly unimpressive.

While I don't think we are directly responsible for the sins of other people, it would also be shortsighted (not to mention unbiblical) to think we lack the ability to cause our brothers to stumble. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the actions of another person--even when wrong--don't excuse our own sins. Ergo, a woman dressing immodestly does not excuse the sinful thoughts of a man, but God won't excuse her either.

There is no myth about modesty. God expects women to be modest in their dress.

I Timothy 2:9-10 - with Greek definitions

"In like manner also, that women adorn [put in proper order, decorate, garnish, trim]
themselves in modest [orderly, decorous, of good behavior, well arranged, seemly, modest]
apparel [costume, apparel, a lowering/letting down, a garment let down, dress, attire],
with shamefacedness [(through the idea of downcast eyes) bashfulness (toward men), modesty or awe (towards God), reverence, regard for others, respect]
and sobriety [soundness of mind, sanity or self-control],
not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

This passage addresses outward--appearance, actions and words. A godly woman wears modest dress, is sober, has self-control, is orderly, bashful toward men, has regard for others, and does good works--among other things.

I have to agree with what you said here. Even though many are for or against certain standards, I feel that the heart of standards regarding clothing is simply trying to define modesty of dress in our present day culture.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by J4Truth

I have to agree with what you said here. Even though many are for or against certain standards, I feel that the heart of standards regarding clothing is simply trying to define modesty of dress in our present day culture.

Agreed. The specifics of what comprises "modesty" or "modest apparel" can be discussed and debated, but the idea that women should be modest shouldn't be up for debate; it's purely biblical.

IF there is a myth about modesty, it might be this: If all women are modest, men will be lust-free. Perhaps that's what the author intended to say, but she didn't actually bring out that point.

[tv1a]

The author pointed out modesty was necessary. The author says the focus is wrong. The focus should be on the men lookong at the women.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Agreed. The specifics of what comprises "modesty" or "modest apparel" can be discussed and debated, but the idea that women should be modest shouldn't be up for debate; it's purely biblical.

IF there is a myth about modesty, it might be this: If all women are modest, men will be lust-free. Perhaps that's what the author intended to say, but she didn't actually bring out that point.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The author pointed out modesty was necessary. The author says the focus is wrong. The focus should be on the men lookong at the women.

I disagree that it's either/or. Men have their struggles; women have theirs. Male attention can be intoxicating for some women, and they can take pleasure in dressing in ways that attract that attention and then shaming men when they stumble. That's not only disrespectful, it's immoral.

This is a two-sided topic. Men are not the only ones at fault here.

[endtimer]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I disagree that it's either/or. Men have their struggles; women have theirs. Male attention can be intoxicating for some women, and they can take pleasure in dressing in ways that attract that attention and then shaming men when they stumble. That's not only disrespectful, it's immoral.

This is a two-sided topic. Men are not the only ones at fault here.

Good post(s). Well said.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I disagree that it's either/or. Men have their struggles; women have theirs. Male attention can be intoxicating for some women, and they can take pleasure in dressing in ways that attract that attention and then shaming men when they stumble. That's not only disrespectful, it's immoral.

This is a two-sided topic. Men are not the only ones at fault here.

Tell it!!

[Praxeas]

I wonder how many people would walk around a pack of pit bulls with a steak hanging from their necks. It takes two to tango. Women have what men want biologically. When it's presented it's hard not to look