Shouts

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Not necessarily making fun of it, but I'll let these two posts speak for themselves.





The people in the upper room appeared to be "drunk" and so we don't really know what all they were actually doing, aside from speaking in tongues. I'm simply not going to interfere, in any way, with someone's expression toward God, unless they are harming themselves or the congregation. AND I am not going to post videos or comment in a way that makes it look as though I am judge and jury on it.

I think it's perfectly Biblical to care about worship that has order, thats modest, befitting and appropriate. Paul spends three chapters in I Corinthians addressing the inappropriate way the Corinthian Christians were worshiping. It was important to him as a leader of the church to communicate to the Corinthians that frightening unbelievers and causing them to believe they were nuts was not appropriate. God is not the author of confusion.

A good question would be to ask "Are we doing anything at our church that fosters confusion in the minds of unbelievers visiting our church?" I had to spend 1 1/2 hours doing damage control several weeks ago after some unwise members of our church decided to overwhelm a new believer, a former Catholic, with "super spirituality" getting in her face and declaring that there were demons in her house. If I hadn't defused her confusion back at her friends house alongside her yet to convert husband, would've stopped coming to our assembly.

So as a pastor I am very sensitive to these assumptions we make as lifelong Pentecostals that we should do whatever, whenever, however under the guise of "freedom in the Spirit". Spirit-filled, Spirit-led people have liberty, yes, but they're supposed to possess wisdom too.

It's not the first time I have had to help undo the damage done to people because people feel it's okay to get a little crazy at church. Worship doesn't have to be outlandish and a turn off to outsiders to be pleasing to God. If a fruit of the Spirit is self control, why can't some people seem to exercise that when they worship. I don't believe God possesses you and makes you do things you cannot control.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I think it's perfectly Biblical to care about worship that has order, thats modest, befitting and appropriate. Paul spends three chapters in I Corinthians addressing the inappropriate way the Corinthian Christians were worshiping. It was important to him as a leader of the church to communicate to the Corinthians that frightening unbelievers and causing them to believe they were nuts was not appropriate. God is not the author of confusion.

A good question would be to ask "Are we doing anything at our church that fosters confusion in the minds of unbelievers visiting our church?" I had to spend 1 1/2 hours doing damage control several weeks ago after some unwise members of our church decided to overwhelm a new believer, a former Catholic, with "super spirituality" getting in her face and declaring that there were demons in her house. If I hadn't defused her confusion back at her friends house alongside her yet to convert husband, would've stopped coming to our assembly.

So as a pastor I am very sensitive to these assumptions we make as lifelong Pentecostals that we should do whatever, whenever, however under the guise of "freedom in the Spirit". Spirit-filled, Spirit-led people have liberty, yes, but they're supposed to possess wisdom too.

It's not the first time I have had to help undo the damage done to people because people feel it's okay to get a little crazy at church. Worship doesn't have to be outlandish and a turn off to outsiders to be pleasing to God. If a fruit of the Spirit is self control, why can't some people seem to exercise that when they worship. I don't believe God possesses you and makes you do things you cannot control.

Some of what you wrote is indeed your role to teach and do damage control. You seemed to have handled that well. It also teaches the Catholic couple that you are wise and in control. It's a teachable moment all around and I'm always glad to have them.

I think that all people possess individual personalities, as such, every person will respond in different ways. We can't corral people into one personality, but they must be allowed to have their freedom of expression.

Now, it is wise to teach the proper balance in I Corinthians. Some teach what I see as an imbalance. They teach that you should not speak in tongues in the congregation, but in private. Yet, when you look closely, I Cor 14:5 says this, " I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied:..." You simply can't use Webster to define, "rather".

He is actually, by Greek definition, saying, "I would that you all speak in tongues, but in a larger degree, that you would prophesy."

So, he never says NOT to speak in tongues in the congregation, but to pray to prophesy to a larger degree.

Someone here once stated that they don't allow their people to speak in tongues in the congregation, aside from being infilled, but they do let them run and dance around the church. lol There is more scripture on speaking in tongues than the latter, so I don't know where that teaching is from.

Anyway, we've been around the block long enough to know that the church is a place of teaching and correction. And we know that the move of God has had much more positive results than those that make a display and circumvent rationality.

We are a spiritual church, given gifts to operate. Let's not try to cast that aside because of a few tares or misguided souls.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Some of what you wrote is indeed your role to teach and do damage control. You seemed to have handled that well. It also teaches the Catholic couple that you are wise and in control. It's a teachable moment all around and I'm always glad to have them.

I think that all people possess individual personalities, as such, every person will respond in different ways. We can't corral people into one personality, but they must be allowed to have their freedom of expression.

Now, it is wise to teach the proper balance in I Corinthians. Some teach what I see as an imbalance. They teach that you should not speak in tongues in the congregation, but in private. Yet, when you look closely, I Cor 14:5 says this, " I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied:..." You simply can't use Webster to define, "rather".

He is actually, by Greek definition, saying, "I would that you all speak in tongues, but in a larger degree, that you would prophesy."

So, he never says NOT to speak in tongues in the congregation, but to pray to prophesy to a larger degree.

Someone here once stated that they don't allow their people to speak in tongues in the congregation, aside from being infilled, but they do let them run and dance around the church. lol There is more scripture on speaking in tongues than the latter, so I don't know where that teaching is from.

Anyway, we've been around the block long enough to know that the church is a place of teaching and correction. And we know that the move of God has had much more positive results than those that make a display and circumvent rationality.

We are a spiritual church, given gifts to operate. Let's not try to cast that aside because of a few tares or misguided souls.

Paul is very clear. If you speak in tongues in such a way that it would create confusion to an unbeliever, then there should be an interpretation or that person needs to speak in tongues more discreetly and quietly. Unless the tongue is for a message that is to be interpreted, it is a private conversation between the individual and God. He is speaking mysteries that no one understands save God. So I don't believe blurting out in tongues is Biblical, getting in someone's ear speaking in tongues, shouting out loud, getting in the microphone and speaking in tongues, etc. Unless there is an interpretation, keep it personal between you and God, otherwise, be quiet.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Paul is very clear. If you speak in tongues in such a way that it would create confusion to an unbeliever, then there should be an interpretation or that person needs to speak in tongues more discreetly and quietly. Unless the tongue is for a message that is to be interpreted, it is a private conversation between the individual and God. He is speaking mysteries that no one understands save God. So I don't believe blurting out in tongues is Biblical, getting in someone's ear speaking in tongues, shouting out loud, getting in the microphone and speaking in tongues, etc. Unless there is an interpretation, keep it personal between you and God, otherwise, be quiet.

I agree with that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Paul is very clear. If you speak in tongues in such a way that it would create confusion to an unbeliever, then there should be an interpretation or that person needs to speak in tongues more discreetly and quietly. Unless the tongue is for a message that is to be interpreted, it is a private conversation between the individual and God. He is speaking mysteries that no one understands save God. So I don't believe blurting out in tongues is Biblical, getting in someone's ear speaking in tongues, shouting out loud, getting in the microphone and speaking in tongues, etc. Unless there is an interpretation, keep it personal between you and God, otherwise, be quiet.

I agree that a person shouldn't elevate their voice above the congregation when edifying themselves.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I agree that a person shouldn't elevate their voice above the congregation when edifying themselves.

Fortunately, I think at least some of the Apostolic world has learned to ignore that kind of behavior. There was a young woman at a recent event our youth group attended who started loudly speaking in tongues (and you can kind of tell when they're trying to get attention). When no one responded right away, she began yelling and then practically screaming in tongues. Still, no one responded. Everyone else went right on worshipping and the minister who was leading completely ignored her. She finally stopped and started praying quietly.

I chalk that up to ignorance, mostly. Also, some churches coddle that behavior for the same reason--they're confused about what comprises tongues that are meant for the whole church. Anytime someone starts to speak in tongues loudly they all get quiet and listen, thinking a message is on the way. When it isn't, they usually think someone "missed" God.

We had an older man in our church who did this several times, and our pastor finally rebuked him publicly. Not harshly, but quietly and firmly. He basically said that if there's no interpretation, it's not meant for the church. I know the man was somewhat offended, but he hasn't done it since. That's the part of the leadership's job that I would never want.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Fortunately, I think at least some of the Apostolic world has learned to ignore that kind of behavior. There was a young woman at a recent event our youth group attended who started loudly speaking in tongues (and you can kind of tell when they're trying to get attention). When no one responded right away, she began yelling and then practically screaming in tongues. Still, no one responded. Everyone else went right on worshipping and the minister who was leading completely ignored her. She finally stopped and started praying quietly.

I chalk that up to ignorance, mostly. Also, some churches coddle that behavior for the same reason--they're confused about what comprises tongues that are meant for the whole church. Anytime someone starts to speak in tongues loudly they all get quiet and listen, thinking a message is on the way. When it isn't, they usually think someone "missed" God.

We had an older man in our church who did this several times, and our pastor finally rebuked him publicly. Not harshly, but quietly and firmly. He basically said that if there's no interpretation, it's not meant for the church. I know the man was somewhat offended, but he hasn't done it since. That's the part of the leadership's job that I would never want.

I wonder if that older man is the one that left our church? He would shout out like that, but of course, you could feel there would be no interpretation and so I don't know why he would continue with it. I prayed he would stop or leave, so I guess he's at your church, huh?

[houston]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Paul is very clear. If you speak in tongues in such a way that it would create confusion to an unbeliever, then there should be an interpretation or that person needs to speak in tongues more discreetly and quietly. Unless the tongue is for a message that is to be interpreted, it is a private conversation between the individual and God. He is speaking mysteries that no one understands save God. So I don't believe blurting out in tongues is Biblical, getting in someone's ear speaking in tongues, shouting out loud, getting in the microphone and speaking in tongues, etc. Unless there is an interpretation, keep it personal between you and God, otherwise, be quiet.

Yes!!!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I think it's perfectly Biblical to care about worship that has order, thats modest, befitting and appropriate. Paul spends three chapters in I Corinthians addressing the inappropriate way the Corinthian Christians were worshiping. It was important to him as a leader of the church to communicate to the Corinthians that frightening unbelievers and causing them to believe they were nuts was not appropriate. God is not the author of confusion.

A good question would be to ask "Are we doing anything at our church that fosters confusion in the minds of unbelievers visiting our church?" I had to spend 1 1/2 hours doing damage control several weeks ago after some unwise members of our church decided to overwhelm a new believer, a former Catholic, with "super spirituality" getting in her face and declaring that there were demons in her house. If I hadn't defused her confusion back at her friends house alongside her yet to convert husband, would've stopped coming to our assembly.

So as a pastor I am very sensitive to these assumptions we make as lifelong Pentecostals that we should do whatever, whenever, however under the guise of "freedom in the Spirit". Spirit-filled, Spirit-led people have liberty, yes, but they're supposed to possess wisdom too.

It's not the first time I have had to help undo the damage done to people because people feel it's okay to get a little crazy at church. Worship doesn't have to be outlandish and a turn off to outsiders to be pleasing to God. If a fruit of the Spirit is self control, why can't some people seem to exercise that when they worship. I don't believe God possesses you and makes you do things you cannot control.

DB, the Corinthian Church had the Spirit but was altogether carnal insomuch as going so far as to partake of the Lord's Supper (communion) in an unworthily manner.
This was not unexpected as they were heathens with no background in Jewish history, laws, or tradition.
Paul taught them the order on how to give a message in tongues, how to interpet, how to make the service flow.
People in your Church getting in someon's face & screaming (I only have what you said to go on) is yes, entirely inappropriate.
What does that have to do with demostrative worship?