Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

outward holiness is a rather vague way of saying things. As outward is all expressions of the heart whether in clothing or conversation etc... Baptism not being a salvational aspect is based on what? Baptism is seen as a work? I won't put words in your mouth.

Brother, I am going to try to choose my words carefully here.

If the words in bold are true, then some people's conversation and actions betray what they wear in their attempt to 'express' their holiness outwardly.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Brother, I am going to try to choose my words carefully here.

If the words in bold are true, then some people's conversation and actions betray what they wear in their attempt to 'express' their holiness outwardly.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Brother, I am going to try to choose my words carefully here.

If the words in bold are true, then some people's conversation and actions betray what they wear in their attempt to 'express' their holiness outwardly.

yeah... that is common sense. Contradiction whether short term or a lifestyle is human nature. The principle is still the same no matter the failure of man to hold up or not the basic truths. Holiness is a complete aspect of a person in ALL things. To negate any aspect of man's being inward or outward to holiness is false doctrine. hypocrite or not. Truth is truth no matter the failure of it's messenger.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

yeah... that is common sense. Contradiction whether short term or a lifestyle is human nature. The principle is still the same no matter the failure of man to hold up or not the basic truths. Holiness is a complete aspect of a person in ALL things. To negate any aspect of man's being inward or outward to holiness is false doctrine. hypocrite or not. Truth is truth no matter the failure of it's messenger.

So why then, is a woman who "looks" another *man's* idea of holy treated overall better by the OP organizations than a woman who trims her hair and follows the standard?

I see nothing in the bible that gives any man or woman the right to mistreat/ignore/judge a woman by how she looks according to OP standard. Even nothing in I Cor 11 says to mistreat/ignore/judge those who disagree with the OP standard. It says "But if any man be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God".

OP churches with these type of standards do not openly come out and admit that they treat women who do not abide by their rules different and like second class citizens.

And they will never admit that it is not a salvational issue. It is not above the atoning blood of Christ.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

So why then, is a woman who "looks" another *man's* idea of holy treated overall better by the OP organizations than a woman who trims her hair and follows the standard?

I see nothing in the bible that gives any man or woman the right to mistreat/ignore/judge a woman by how she looks according to OP standard. Even nothing in I Cor 11 says to mistreat/ignore/judge those who disagree with the OP standard. It says "But if any man be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God".

OP churches with these type of standards do not openly come out and admit that they treat women who do not abide by their rules different and like second class citizens.

And they will never admit that it is not a salvational issue. It is not above the atoning blood of Christ.

Personally I have not had that type nor seen that type of issue. If something is a "righteous" thing to do then yes it can be above the atoning blood of Christ. One cannot be in rebellion and under the atoning work of Christ. to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not it is sin. Unrepentant sin cannot be removed. Now whether something is sin or not is another issue or whether done in ignorance.

If someone (pastor or ministry) sees a person in rebellion to something they view as a righteous standing issue. Yes... they should call them to repentance. Guess what that is JUDGING the situation and that is biblical. Shunning if it comes to that is also biblical. I would have to be told shown what "mistreat" is. Everything should be done in love and respect.