outward holiness is a rather vague way of saying things. As outward is all expressions of the heart whether in clothing or conversation etc... Baptism not being a salvational aspect is based on what? Baptism is seen as a work? I won't put words in your mouth.
Do you believe you are saved AT the sinners prayer? Life of repentance vs that initial salvation or coming in to covenant are two different things. Also do you believe you are judged by that fruit unto eternal life?
good
walking away is relative and vague. Lukewarm is not walking away completely. Which even then depends as I could argue it is walking away in part.
not far from what I expected.
I was worried because I would hope that I don't believe much like yourself.
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
...and yet Paul spent a great deal of time telling people how to live as Christians. Some of it was offered as his own opinion as to a better way to be (like marriage, and/or staying single). Others was dealing with very specific problems in a particular congregation (like "women be silent). and others was addressed to everyone who is a christian (like can you sin? God FORBID and 1 Cor 11 the hair chapter).
No, Paul was not a legalist. Paul understood a balance between living by the letter of the law, and placing restrictions on the behavior of christians which is what the OP world does when it is right.
Paul was not doing as you suggest.... as for justification...."how were you baptised?" "Have you recieved the Holy Ghost since you believed?"
His words, not mine...
peace my friend.
Ferd do believe that if your wife cuts her hair and puts on a pair of pants while wearing makeup she would go to hell?
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Last edited by navygoat1998; 03-12-2013 at 05:15 PM.
Martin Luther also believed we are saved by Grace through Faith and yet still taught baptism was necessary
In fact, Luther called for the death of those Anabaptists who outspokenly believed in Justification by faith alone in Christ and practiced believers baptism and not baptismal regeneration.
Could be a hangover from the Catholic church???
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Last edited by navygoat1998; 03-12-2013 at 05:08 PM.
In fact, Luther called for the death of those Anabaptists who outspokenly believed in Justification by faith alone in Christ and practiced believers baptism and not baptismal regeneration.
Could be a hangover from the Catholic church???
Or later evangelicals misunderstood what the reformers taught about faith and works.
Btw I've read Calvin also believed it was necessary. What about Wesley?
Isn't the evangelical view rather new?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
outward holiness is a rather vague way of saying things. As outward is all expressions of the heart whether in clothing or conversation etc... Baptism not being a salvational aspect is based on what? Baptism is seen as a work? I won't put words in your mouth.
Brother, I am going to try to choose my words carefully here.
If the words in bold are true, then some people's conversation and actions betray what they wear in their attempt to 'express' their holiness outwardly.
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Brother, I am going to try to choose my words carefully here.
If the words in bold are true, then some people's conversation and actions betray what they wear in their attempt to 'express' their holiness outwardly.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Brother, I am going to try to choose my words carefully here.
If the words in bold are true, then some people's conversation and actions betray what they wear in their attempt to 'express' their holiness outwardly.
yeah... that is common sense. Contradiction whether short term or a lifestyle is human nature. The principle is still the same no matter the failure of man to hold up or not the basic truths. Holiness is a complete aspect of a person in ALL things. To negate any aspect of man's being inward or outward to holiness is false doctrine. hypocrite or not. Truth is truth no matter the failure of it's messenger.
Ferd do believe that if your wife cuts her hair and puts on a pair of pants while wearing makeup she would go to hell?
So now we are going to get into a discussion about what you have rejected to see if I "line up"?
The difference between us is not in my view of "if a woman cuts her hair will she go to hell" but in the fact that you found some stuff taught by some people that you didnt agree with.... so you rejected all doctrine taught by those guys and found some new belief system to replace the old.
I didnt. I find great comfort in the doctrine and I have no need to reject doctrine, when I find some man misapplying it in some way.
Since we are asking questions, do you believe it is proper...that a person can be saved... by rejecting entire passages of scripture and just ignoring them?
if the tone here comes accross as harsh, it is certainly not meant to be that way. please understand I dont want to be confrontational here.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The difference between us is not in my view of "if a woman cuts her hair will she go to hell" but in the fact that you found some stuff taught by some people that you didnt agree with.... so you rejected all doctrine taught by those guys and found some new belief system to replace the old.
Wrong.
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I didnt. I find great comfort in the doctrine and I have no need to reject doctrine, when I find some man misapplying it in some way.
Well, bless your heart.
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Since we are asking questions, do you believe it is proper...that a person can be saved... by rejecting entire passages of scripture and just ignoring them?
No. No one believes that. YOUR interpretation of scripture is what is rejected.
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if the tone here comes accross as harsh, it is certainly not meant to be that way. please understand I dont want to be confrontational here.
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