Re: Words in the Bible Most Christians Don’t Belie
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrylyates
That's a rather interesting question, in light of our previous encounters. I would think the answer obvious. However, I will answer in the affirmative!!
The answer is obvious. And it's not "affirmative". Anyone can see that -- even an ultracon like OPII.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Re: Words in the Bible Most Christians Don’t Belie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
If you believed what you say you believe, you would (it seems to me) jump at the chance to demonstrate God's power at a local hospital.
So why don't you tell me why you will not?
We are in the local hospitals 3 days a week with teams of 2 people each. We also minister in the local nursing homes as well as hospice. I am part of the Pastoral Care Team at the largest hospital in the Tri-State area and am there 3-4 hours at least 4 days a week. additionally, each of our CARE TEAM's is responsible for ministering to 20 new homes each month in their neighborhoods. We walk our talk on a daily basis.
My question was, "Is there any specific area in which you can demonstrate that I do not believe the Word?" That was what you were accusing me of, wasn't it? Not our ministry outreach.
Re: Words in the Bible Most Christians Don’t Belie
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrylyates
We are in the local hospitals 3 days a week with teams of 2 people each. We also minister in the local nursing homes as well as hospice. I am part of the Pastoral Care Team at the largest hospital in the Tri-State area and am there 3-4 hours at least 4 days a week. additionally, each of our CARE TEAM's is responsible for ministering to 20 new homes each month in their neighborhoods. We walk our talk on a daily basis.
My question was, "Is there any specific area in which you can demonstrate that I do not believe the Word?" That was what you were accusing me of, wasn't it? Not our ministry outreach.
Have you sent home 60-70% of the patients?
(I shudder to think what you ministry entails for hospice.)
OK, here is a specific scripture that you do not believe:
Is any sick among you? call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Now you will say you do believe it. But you don't. And why don't you? Because you know it isn't actually true. And you will say that you practice it. But you don't. You only practice it when you think it might "work". Back pain. Cancer. Headaches. Can't raise arm higher than this. Maybe a leg shorter than the other. These healings "work" because they are not immediately verifiable. Cancer can and very often does go into remission, sometimes even without medical treatment. (Though I bet you have taken credit for many a cancer "healing" that God accomplished through chemo and radiation.) Pain is subjective -- adrenaline and endorphins can hide it completely.
That's how you get your 60-70%. No? OK, show me video and documentation of a Downs Syndrome healing, or an amputee's healing.
What do you do at the hospital 3 times a week? Do you go room to room and heal 60-70% of the patients? I'd like to see it. Seriously. I will travel to your city and watch, if you claim that this is what happens.
How about raising the dead? I'd bet good money that you once prayed for someone who wasn't breathing, and they suddenly started breathing again. And it was purely coincidental that paramedics were also trying to raise him or her. You do not go into a morgue and raise anyone. And you won't. You know that it will not work. Your batting average would fall drastically if you tried it.
From your "Miracles In Action" site:
Do You Make Excuses for Failure?
A general rule of thumb is that you never analyze your victories, just your defeats. A good indicator of your honesty toward the Word of God is how you deal with a failure. If you are ‘standing on God’s Word’ for healing and the person dies, how do you react? Do you go on quoting Scripture and ‘speaking faith’ or do you revert to excuses. The same excuses you were taught, but can’t be found in the Bible.
What do you do 30-40% of the time, Dr. Yates?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Re: Words in the Bible Most Christians Don’t Belie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Have you sent home 60-70% of the patients?
(I shudder to think what you ministry entails for hospice.)
OK, here is a specific scripture that you do not believe:
Is any sick among you? call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Now you will say you do believe it. But you don't. And why don't you? Because you know it isn't actually true. And you will say that you practice it. But you don't. You only practice it when you think it might "work". Back pain. Cancer. Headaches. Can't raise arm higher than this. Maybe a leg shorter than the other. These healings "work" because they are not immediately verifiable. Cancer can and very often does go into remission, sometimes even without medical treatment. (Though I bet you have taken credit for many a cancer "healing" that God accomplished through chemo and radiation.) Pain is subjective -- adrenaline and endorphins can hide it completely.
That's how you get your 60-70%. No? OK, show me video and documentation of a Downs Syndrome healing, or an amputee's healing.
What do you do at the hospital 3 times a week? Do you go room to room and heal 60-70% of the patients? I'd like to see it. Seriously. I will travel to your city and watch, if you claim that this is what happens.
How about raising the dead? I'd bet good money that you once prayed for someone who wasn't breathing, and they suddenly started breathing again. And it was purely coincidental that paramedics were also trying to raise him or her. You do not go into a morgue and raise anyone. And you won't. You know that it will not work. Your batting average would fall drastically if you tried it.
From your "Miracles In Action" site:
Do You Make Excuses for Failure?
A general rule of thumb is that you never analyze your victories, just your defeats. A good indicator of your honesty toward the Word of God is how you deal with a failure. If you are ‘standing on God’s Word’ for healing and the person dies, how do you react? Do you go on quoting Scripture and ‘speaking faith’ or do you revert to excuses. The same excuses you were taught, but can’t be found in the Bible.
What do you do 30-40% of the time, Dr. Yates?
I took the time to peruse your profile. It has some rather interesting things to say about you.
About Timmy
Biography
Formerly Assembly of God. Now a deist-leaning agnostic.
Location
Texas
Interests
sayin' stuff, photography, beer.
Occupation
Software engineer, and admin at ex-pentecostal forums and at eX-Pentecostal Outreach.
Here is my response to you: 1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Matthew 17:17
Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you?
Re: Words in the Bible Most Christians Don’t Belie
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrylyates
I took the time to peruse your profile. It has some rather interesting things to say about you.
About Timmy
Biography
Formerly Assembly of God. Now a deist-leaning agnostic.
Location
Texas
Interests
sayin' stuff, photography, beer.
Occupation
Software engineer, and admin at ex-pentecostal forums and at eX-Pentecostal Outreach.
Here is my response to you: 1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Matthew 17:17
Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you?
Fair enough. You are also a "natural man", of course. And it's very convenient to use the "sincere seeker" explanation for why your beliefs don't make any sense. (To this "natural man".) I could use the exact same thing against you, you know.
"A sincere seeker will discover that I am right."
But I won't. It's dishonest, and cheap, and, as I said, convenient.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Re: Words in the Bible Most Christians Don’t Belie
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrylyates
I took the time to peruse your profile. It has some rather interesting things to say about you.
About Timmy
Biography
Formerly Assembly of God. Now a deist-leaning agnostic.
Location
Texas
Interests
sayin' stuff, photography, beer.
Occupation
Software engineer, and admin at ex-pentecostal forums and at eX-Pentecostal Outreach.
Here is my response to you: 1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Matthew 17:17
Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you?
I for one believe Timmy to be a sincere seeker. I've not seen a bad spirit from him, just very honest questions, comments and observations. I believe he's just as all of us are, attempting to honestly find real answers to real questions while living a real life.
Hybrid Mode
