Dkb tweets & fb statuses

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

So, I have liked David K. Bernard on FB to see what all he has to say. I have seen several "stats" regarding growth in the UPC and different figures regarding oneness people versus trinitarians, "stats" about people that speak in tongues versus those that don't. I haven't done the sutdies on the topics he has been posting about but the number seem very off.

"Scholarly study: 'Evangelical churches are filling up with people who have never had a genuine experience of transformational conversion"


"Trinitarian Pentecostal pastors: most agree there has been a loss of spiritual gifts (70%) & gloss of Pentecostal identity (60%)" -- I presume he meant "loss" and not "gloss" but that was a direct quote.

Do any of you all follow his FB or Tweets? He seems to be giving wild info. Am I alone in feeling that way?

I can't stand such claims without citation from a source that has done research

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I can't stand such claims without citation from a source that has done research

Prax I can tell that about you in your posts. Trust nothing until it can be proved. In the Navy we called it inspect what you expect.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by n david

I don't doubt this. For the most part, churches and ministers focus more on the generic "ask the Lord into your heart" prayer, which is ok as a starting point; but they fail to move forward into receiving the power of God in their lives, which is the Holy Ghost. Transformation can only happen when God indwells a person through the HG.

Jim Cymbala and others have lamented the lack of the HG in the church today. Cymbala stated there are two sides on this (paraphrase): one which is deep on Scripture, but is afraid of the experience (HG); and the other which is all about the experience, but shallow on Scripture.

I agree. A lot of churches seem afraid to promote the HG because of the negative stigma others have given it.

Originally Posted by n david

1) were there footnotes with sources for these stats?
2) I do believe there's been a loss of gifts; as to loss of identity...what's the definition of identity being used? The UPC version, or the actual definition?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I can't stand such claims without citation from a source that has done research

It drives me nuts because I have asked for links to the info, study, or even a summary of the studies. Got nothing. I went so far as to comment on one them something along the lines of, "I am 100% sure that these figures aren't accurate."

I almost used a rough quote from Anchorman, "80% of the time DKB is wrong 100% of the time."

I find it amazing that people in the movement continue to get away with actions, fact stating, and flat out lies without any recourse. Now, these stats may all be accurate, but they seem very inaccurate. That is like Stoneking saying that when Pentecostals come to town that the sales on porn in hotels increases...unless he knows because he is the one buying them (TIC) there are no true facts to support the claim.

[returnman]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

It drives me nuts because I have asked for links to the info, study, or even a summary of the studies. Got nothing. I went so far as to comment on one them something along the lines of, "I am 100% sure that these figures aren't accurate."

I almost used a rough quote from Anchorman, "80% of the time DKB is wrong 100% of the time."

I find it amazing that people in the movement continue to get away with actions, fact stating, and flat out lies without any recourse. Now, these stats may all be accurate, but they seem very inaccurate. That is like Stoneking saying that when Pentecostals come to town that the sales on porn in hotels increases...unless he knows because he is the one buying them (TIC) there are no true facts to support the claim.

Heard Stoneking say that about porn in reference to Charasmatics. Has he really been heard saying "pentecostals"?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by returnman

Heard Stoneking say that about porn in reference to Charasmatics. Has he really been heard saying "pentecostals"?

I would say that charasmatics are pentecostals so... I wouldn't know if he feels the same, but when I heard it I understood it to be pentecostals in general. Regardless, he is a nut as far as I am concerned and cannot be trust with stats of any sort - that is my opinion. I appreciate that his ministry touches people's lives, but not mine.

This isn't about Stoneking, but just the misuse of misinformation. I don't know that DKB would blantantly lie. In fact, I hope he isn't. I would just like to see the proof. This is a reason I don't watch ANY of the political shows because they rarely show proof of any sort aside from biased info. Fox shows info obtained from conservatives almost exclusively and while others use biased opinions too.

[returnman]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

I would say that charasmatics are pentecostals so... I wouldn't know if he feels the same, but when I heard it I understood it to be pentecostals in general. Regardless, he is a nut as far as I am concerned and cannot be trust with stats of any sort - that is my opinion. I appreciate that his ministry touches people's lives, but not mine.

This isn't about Stoneking, but just the misuse of misinformation. I don't know that DKB would blantantly lie. In fact, I hope he isn't. I would just like to see the proof. This is a reason I don't watch ANY of the political shows because they rarely show proof of any sort aside from biased info. Fox shows info obtained from conservatives almost exclusively and while others use biased opinions too.

I know the man is very smart. So are a lot of leaders trying to promote their own cause. And probably smart enough to back up his numbers with the data he chooses. Nothing new there.

[seekerman]

*IF* Bernard's posts are not true, would this make him a liar, deceiver and false teacher?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by seekerman

*IF* Bernard's posts are not true, would this make him a liar, deceiver and false teacher?

Only if he knows they aren't true and pushes them as truth anyway.

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

Stats can be manipulted. Think about it. If Stoneking is right and porn purchases increase when charismatics come to town then one could argue that he could ask another charismatic if they bought one, they say yes and immediately he has a stat that he can use... when charistmatics come to town the porn purchases increase. He is a snake oil salesman so far as I am concerned.

DKB and LS don't belong in the same category.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by seekerman

*IF* Bernard's posts are not true, would this make him a liar, deceiver and false teacher?

The once talked about "Jewish Revival" in Nebraska, or wherever it was supposed to have been, was a lie since people talked about it without ANY knowledge or confrimation of it happening. And now we know that it didn't happen. Thus, the people that passed that one along knowing it didn't happen lied. So if DKB is passing off lies as truth... then there ya go.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by returnman

I know the man is very smart. So are a lot of leaders trying to promote their own cause. And probably smart enough to back up his numbers with the data he chooses. Nothing new there.

Stats can be manipulted. Think about it. If Stoneking is right and porn purchases increase when charismatics come to town then one could argue that he could ask another charismatic if they bought one, they say yes and immediately he has a stat that he can use... when charistmatics come to town the porn purchases increase. He is a snake oil salesman so far as I am concerned.