Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Originally Posted by bishoph
Just to be clear......the AG and many other Pentecostal based groups teach that Holy Ghost baptism is distinct from and subsequent to salvation. Which is why nearly all of those groups believe that one is saved regardless of whether or not they EVER receive the spirit baptism or not. It is according to their teaching, something EVERY believer should seek for (to receive power) but not something they MUST have to be saved.

Also it is true that most Pentecostal based groups teach that speaking with tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

My question is......is there any other (initial) sign that one has received the Spirit? Or more directly, is speaking with tongues the ONLY biblical and universal (initial) sign or manifestation of one receiving the Holy Ghost?

I would ask the question, who is demanding proof that one has received the Holy Ghost? Who needs this proof?

But, to answer your question concerning receiving the Spirit. Tongues sometime accompanied, sometimes didn't accompany the infilling of the Holy Ghost. John himself was filled with the Spirit in his mother's womb. Even John's father was filled with the Holy Ghost, but no tongues.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Tongues sometimes, and sometimes does not, accompany the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

And secondly, is there any biblical evidence that one can receive an indwelling presence/spirit separate/distinct from being baptized with the Holy Ghost?

Isn't that what being baptized with the Holy Ghost is....receiving the indwelling presence/spirit of God? There is instance after instance in scripture where individuals were indwelled with the Spirit of God. Unless you're saying there's a difference between receiving the Spirit of God and being baptized with the Holy Ghost?

I need clarification before I can give a specific answer.

[Light]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I would ask the question, who is demanding proof that one has received the Holy Ghost? Who needs this proof?

But, to answer your question concerning receiving the Spirit. Tongues sometime accompanied, sometimes didn't accompany the infilling of the Holy Ghost. John himself was filled with the Spirit in his mother's womb. Even John's father was filled with the Holy Ghost, but no tongues.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

The Holy Ghost came on the Gentiles the same way it did on the Jews on the day of Pentecost.

Act 10:44    While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45    And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46    For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

In Acts 11 no one is receiving the Holy Ghost.
In acts11 Peter is explaining to the elders in Jerusalem why he went into a Gentiles house.
I noticed you left some very important verses out of you post.
Act 11:13    And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Act 11:14    Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I would ask the question, who is demanding proof that one has received the Holy Ghost? Who needs this proof?

But, to answer your question concerning receiving the Spirit. Tongues sometime accompanied, sometimes didn't accompany the infilling of the Holy Ghost. John himself was filled with the Spirit in his mother's womb. Even John's father was filled with the Holy Ghost, but no tongues.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Tongues sometimes, and sometimes does not, accompany the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

I need clarification before I can give a specific answer.

Seekerman, in trying to make your point I am afraid you have made an unfortunate choice of Scripture.

In this passage, the Apostle Peter is defending his visit to the house of the gentile Cornelius by demonstrating how "God gave them the like gift as he did unto us.."

We must always allow Scripture to interpret Scripture." In this case we would go back to Chapter 10 to read the actual evets Peter is speaking of in Chapter 11. There we find:

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Can I call your attention to verse 46? This verse clearly demonstrates that the way in which the Jews knew beyond doubt that God had filled the gentiles with the Holy Ghost was precisely BECAUSE they heard them "speak with other tongues." Tongues alone were "the initial evidence" as it were, of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. This was the "like Gift" referred to in Acts 11:17!

I know you disagree, but in the accounts in the Book of Acts, after and including the Day of Pentecost, every record of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit either directly or indirectly references tongues.