Come Out Of Her My People

[KeptByTheWord]

IF you can find and attend a church whose sincere purpose and mission is focused on Jesus, that is a wonderful thing, and I believe there must still be those type churches out there.

But for every church that has the real heart of Jesus at their core, there are a hundred whose main focus is not about Christ, but more about a building, a program, a financial obligation, a social event, a preacher, a worship team... and on the list goes etc...

If there is a ministry or a church whose heart is such as John the Baptist... i.e. "I must decrease, but HE must increase"... that is the kind of church to be a part of. But when a church becomes all about who is the pastor, how great the worship team is, or what kind of building program is going on, and so on the list goes... I would not be interested in being a part of such a place.

Finding a church or a ministry that truly has an "I must decrease" heartbeat... now that is the challenge. That is why home churches are appealing to those who are tired of the shows that go on in so many of the churches today, and less of that is dealt with in a home church setting.

Home churches are not perfect, not by any means... but they are far better than going nowhere at all... or being a part of a church who has a "please me" mindset.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

IF you can find and attend a church whose sincere purpose and mission is focused on Jesus, that is a wonderful thing, and I believe there must still be those type churches out there.

But for every church that has the real heart of Jesus at their core, there are a hundred whose main focus is not about Christ, but more about a building, a program, a financial obligation, a social event, a preacher, a worship team... and on the list goes etc...

If there is a ministry or a church whose heart is such as John the Baptist... i.e. "I must decrease, but HE must increase"... that is the kind of church to be a part of. But when a church becomes all about who is the pastor, how great the worship team is, or what kind of building program is going on, and so on the list goes... I would not be interested in being a part of such a place.

Finding a church or a ministry that truly has an "I must decrease" heartbeat... now that is the challenge. That is why home churches are appealing to those who are tired of the shows that go on in so many of the churches today, and less of that is dealt with in a home church setting.

Home churches are not perfect, not by any means... but they are far better than going nowhere at all... or being a part of a church who has a "please me" mindset.

Amen! And thank you, Kept by the Word.

That is the Truth, exactly. Buildings mean nothing. We could meet in a Restaurant, a warehouse, a home, storefront, anywhere. That shouldn't be the point.

[renee819]

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues

.

N David wrote

I don't believe this is speaking about church buildings, tithes/offerings, etc. It clearly states "...be not partakers of her SINS."

And what the RCC has put into place has led to sin. It was sin in the first place, because, …
Constantine, for Political reasons, a Pagan until he died, took churches away from Pagan Priests and gave them, to the Christians. Which sounds great, but at what price? They had to compromise, agree to baptize in the Trinity.

It is a sin to compromise with False Doctrine.

N David wrote

You give the RCC too much credit. Like it or not, tithes and offerings are in the OT. That was done by Israel, not something started later by the RCC

.

David, take a lesson from history. It has been said, “Those that don't know their history are bound to repeat it.”
Constantine started the first United Religions. Combining Paganism, OT teachings and Christianity.
Of course Tithes were in the OT. Three types of Tithes. I believe most of it was food. And the Priests were not allowed to own property. But we are not to go back to the laws of the OT. Jesus brought us a New Covenant. Which did not include Tithes. Nor did the First Century Church receive Tithes. To go back to the OT and "cherry-pick" just the laws you want to abide by, is just as bad, as the Denominal Churches, that pick certain scriptures for their salvation, in the New Testament, while ignoring the Foundation.

N David wrote

Clergy and Laity are also not something created by the RCC. IMO, the RCC took that from the example of the priests in the Bible. One could also argue the Temple and Synagogues were the first "church buildings." The Synagogues had daily and weekly teaching and instruction in the Torah; the Temple was for annual rites and sacrifices.

Again to find Priests, and Synagogues, you have to go back to the Old Testament. Jesus told the Apostles,...

Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

I've met many ministers that claim to be humble, and are there to minister to the people, but if you try to point out what you think is not right, see what happens. I have seen it happen over and over again. For instance, there was a big split in the church that I belonged to, for over 30 yrs. Over toeless shoes.

N David wrote,

This whole thing is kind of left field to me. The thought that we should abandon buildings and such because of the connection to the RCC is absurd. The RCC practices prayer and communion, so I suppose we should shun that as well

.

Do you practice prayer (beads) and communion the same way that the RCC does?
I'm not really saying that we have to abandon buildings. I don't know what to say about that. But if they are set up as little Kingdoms with a King (man) as the ruler. Then I see no other way than to abandon the whole system. But any man in that position is not likely to do so.

However, persecution is on it's way. And just like Constantine, the churches will be asked to join the One World Religion, and if not, they will take the buildings away from you.

I read an article where a person was at one of these United Religion Meetings. And the question was asked, what would happen to people that would not join? It was stated, “They have to be eliminated.”

[n david]

Originally Posted by renee819

And what the RCC has put into place has led to sin. It was sin in the first place, because, …Constantine, for Political reasons, a Pagan until he died, took churches away from Pagan Priests and gave them, to the Christians. Which sounds great, but at what price? They had to compromise, agree to baptize in the Trinity.

It is a sin to compromise with False Doctrine.

Constantine built the first church in Constantinople, which is documented. It's also documented that he considered himself a Christian and was baptized later in life. Not saying he was right, only that history states he was influenced by his mother and declared himself to be a Christian. Where is it written that in order to have the churches, they had to agree to baptize in the Trinity?

Originally Posted by renee819

Of course Tithes were in the OT.

You gave a list of a few things you claimed were started by the RCC, you listed tithes among them; my point was not to debate whether or not it should be in practice today, the point was it was not something started by the RCC. The origins were in the OT.

Originally Posted by renee819

Again to find Priests, and Synagogues, you have to go back to the Old Testament.

What was Jesus doing, and where was he doing it when he went missing for several days as a child? He was teaching in the Synagogue. That's NT. There are several stories of Jesus and the Apostles which show them being at the Temple or Synagogue.

As for clergy being a "sin" we've taken from the TCC, Paul disagrees in Ephesians 4

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

You mentioned that the hierarchy of Clergy and Laity was started by the RCC, and while they do have their positions, it does not mean that all churches are in sin because they have a Pastor over them with other church leaders as well. Why would Paul speak of these ministries and positions as being given by God, if it were not to be implemented and followed?

Originally Posted by renee819

Jesus told the Apostles,...

You are taking this out of context and meaning. This was in response to a mother who wanted her two sons to be seated at the right and left hand of God. This is not speaking about the church.

Originally Posted by renee819

I've met many ministers that claim to be humble, and are there to minister to the people, but if you try to point out what you think is not right, see what happens. I have seen it happen over and over again. For instance, there was a big split in the church that I belonged to, for over 30 yrs. Over toeless shoes.

This takes me back to something you mentioned in your first post above...

Originally Posted by renee819

And this makes my 3rd Sunday to a Pentecostal Church. I talked to the Pastor a few minutes after church, and told him, I didn't believe in man-made laws for the church. But we didn't have time to discuss it.
It seems they may be pretty strict on the UPC rules, although I believe they are Independent. I told the Pastor that we, he, his wife, and I, need to set down and have a talk. But we haven't yet. Any suggestions?

On your 3rd visit to a church, you tell a Pastor that you don't believe in man-made laws for the church and that you, him and his wife need to have a talk...? What are you hoping to gain from this?

I've seen church splits as well. They're mostly started by someone who starts coming to a church, who disagrees with what the Pastor is preaching/teaching and instead of removing themselves from the church, they demand to speak with the Pastor to give their thoughts about how he's wrong....and then when the Pastor doesn't give in to their demands, they go through the church, causing division.

Originally Posted by renee819

Do you practice prayer (beads) and communion the same way that the RCC does? I'm not really saying that we have to abandon buildings. I don't know what to say about that. But if they are set up as little Kingdoms with a King (man) as the ruler. Then I see no other way than to abandon the whole system. But any man in that position is not likely to do so.

There was a man who was in the church I attend now. He helped in the music department and even preached/taught from time to time. Out of the blue, he decided to leave the church; like you, he didn't believe in a man being over a church. Ironically, he decided he was going to start his own church. When I asked who would lead, he said "I will, of course."

Any kind of gathering, whether it's in a home or a large building, can have a "little kingdom" issue. The problem isn't with brick and mortar, the problem is flesh and pride.

You say, "I'm not really saying that we have to abandon buildings," but your first post says just that: "And the only way that I see 'to come out of her' is to start Home Churches by those that are completely dedicated to God."