seriously? seriously you are asking that question?
You know full well why that was brought up. THis is all about keeping the bash the UPCI thing alive and well. period.
bring as much embarrisment etc as possible. why the need to revisit past wounds? what is the benifit? peeling scabs, digging up long dead skeletons does no one any good. What gives?
Well, I do know why it was brought up. Several of us feel this is a message that is a historical marker in the life of an organization. The message and the events surrounding it set the trajectory of my religious life.
Ferd, the attitude that those of us who have generations in this movement ought to walk away and never say another word about t is baffling.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
Well, I do know why it was brought up. Several of us feel this is a message that is a historical marker in the life of an organization. The message and the events surrounding it set the trajectory of my religious life.
Ferd, the attitude that those of us who have generations in this movement ought to walk away and never say another word about t is baffling.
Baron, I hope you know that I respect you. We have posted together for a long time. I dont recall us ever having all out war. In fact we have been on the same side almost as often as on opposite sides....
I think my history and attitude on the subject provides the context for my comments here.
You know some of us have been posting since a lot of these things happened....or at least within proximity.
I could certainly say a lot more about it. I could tell you all about a conversation I had with a family member of the fellow in question right after the event at a Because of the Times. I know exactly how tumultuous all that was for the whole family.
Nor have I suggested that he was wrong in what he said, nor have I suggested that the forcecs behind the infernal document were right.
But Bro, we are now 20 years removed. Here we are. All these years later and we are going to dig it all up and review the whole thing?
You guys walked away. I am 5th gen Apostolic. my family was PCI before there was a UPCI. I didnt walk away. you left me and seriously I have more in commone with guys like you than I do with some of the supersillycons that ive been left with.... maybe I have my own issues with you walking away? I dunno.
I do know that from my inside perspective, Im glad I stayed. I see things happening that encourrage me. Im peeved when I think of my friends who got impatient and couldnt stay around long enough to affect the kind of change that would make the org better.
i get a bit sad when I think of friends who walked away because when they figured out that some of the junk they were taught wasnt really in the bible, they ended updeciding EVERYTHING they were taught was wrong and the packed it in and turned to stuff as unbiblical as the stuff they walked away from.
And yea, there are some hanging out with you that i do not trust. I dont trust them because I know what they want is destruction. What they want is to break what they have come to hate. period. This thread isnt the first time Ive said that. It wont be the last time.
I am protective. I admit that. I have something at stake here. I have kids I want to hand this thing over to. I given 20 years of ministry. Ive suffered and I have been utterly completely blessed. I fully admit I love the UPCI and am protective of it. WARTS AND ALL.
We arent going to agree on this. I hope this post gives you more insight in why I am the way I am. And why I have said the things I have said. In my mind, there is no question why this thread was started and it wasnt for some noble purpose. im going to stand up and say so when I see this junk.
I love ya bro. Im not against you and I dont need you to think like I think for me respect you and your walk with God. Just dont expect me to stand by and watch my own be attacked. Especially when the leaders who were the leaders when all this happened are dead and gone.
peace.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Baron, I hope you know that I respect you. We have posted together for a long time. I dont recall us ever having all out war. In fact we have been on the same side almost as often as on opposite sides....
I think my history and attitude on the subject provides the context for my comments here.
You know some of us have been posting since a lot of these things happened....or at least within proximity.
I could certainly say a lot more about it. I could tell you all about a conversation I had with a family member of the fellow in question right after the event at a Because of the Times. I know exactly how tumultuous all that was for the whole family.
Nor have I suggested that he was wrong in what he said, nor have I suggested that the forcecs behind the infernal document were right.
But Bro, we are now 20 years removed. Here we are. All these years later and we are going to dig it all up and review the whole thing?
You guys walked away. I am 5th gen Apostolic. my family was PCI before there was a UPCI. I didnt walk away. you left me and seriously I have more in commone with guys like you than I do with some of the supersillycons that ive been left with.... maybe I have my own issues with you walking away? I dunno.
I do know that from my inside perspective, Im glad I stayed. I see things happening that encourrage me. Im peeved when I think of my friends who got impatient and couldnt stay around long enough to affect the kind of change that would make the org better.
i get a bit sad when I think of friends who walked away because when they figured out that some of the junk they were taught wasnt really in the bible, they ended updeciding EVERYTHING they were taught was wrong and the packed it in and turned to stuff as unbiblical as the stuff they walked away from.
And yea, there are some hanging out with you that i do not trust. I dont trust them because I know what they want is destruction. What they want is to break what they have come to hate. period. This thread isnt the first time Ive said that. It wont be the last time.
I am protective. I admit that. I have something at stake here. I have kids I want to hand this thing over to. I given 20 years of ministry. Ive suffered and I have been utterly completely blessed. I fully admit I love the UPCI and am protective of it. WARTS AND ALL.
We arent going to agree on this. I hope this post gives you more insight in why I am the way I am. And why I have said the things I have said. In my mind, there is no question why this thread was started and it wasnt for some noble purpose. im going to stand up and say so when I see this junk.
I love ya bro. Im not against you and I dont need you to think like I think for me respect you and your walk with God. Just dont expect me to stand by and watch my own be attacked. Especially when the leaders who were the leaders when all this happened are dead and gone.
peace.
Ferd,
I just fundamentally disagree that we should bury the past. We should forgive an move on as individuals but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold the organizations feet to the fire. They say you can't affect it from the outside, I beg to differ.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
I just fundamentally disagree that we should bury the past. We should forgive an move on as individuals but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold the organizations feet to the fire. They say you can't affect it from the outside, I beg to differ.
So you do have an agenda!
How are you wanting to 'affect' the UPCI? Would you like to see it completely destroyed?
To make a long story short, Baron, y'all were simply voted out. When push came to shove, there were simply more 'three steppers', as it's called here, than 'one steppers'. I'm sorry that people were hurt that had given years to the organization. But for the life of me, I can't see why they ever agreed to become one in the first place. Too far apart when it comes to the 'plan of salvation'.
Some of you seem to have wasted years, trying to 'hold the organization's feet to the fire'.
Don't know what you've accomplished during this time, but it seems to me that you've spent a lot of time and energy trying to 'get back at the organization'.
I think it would be liberating for all of you to forget about the bad old UPCI. Do something productive...like start your own organization!
How are you wanting to 'affect' the UPCI? Would you like to see it completely destroyed?
To make a long story short, Baron, y'all were simply voted out. When push came to shove, there were simply more 'three steppers', as it's called here, than 'one steppers'. I'm sorry that people were hurt that had given years to the organization. But for the life of me, I can't see why they ever agreed to become one in the first place. Too far apart when it comes to the 'plan of salvation'.
Some of you seem to have wasted years, trying to 'hold the organization's feet to the fire'.
Don't know what you've accomplished during this time, but it seems to me that you've spent a lot of time and energy trying to 'get back at the organization'.
I think it would be liberating for all of you to forget about the bad old UPCI. Do something productive...like start your own organization!
No agenda. Just truth. Seems like Jack Nicholson needs to make an appearance.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
Naw. Not when EB will come up with an animated one.
And while I've made some surface comments on some side issues, I've been out of the UPC for far too long and don't really feel like I have a dog in this fight when it comes to history of the org.
Last edited by RandyWayne; 09-17-2013 at 04:55 PM.
Well, I do know why it was brought up. Several of us feel this is a message that is a historical marker in the life of an organization. The message and the events surrounding it set the trajectory of my religious life.
Ferd, the attitude that those of us who have generations in this movement ought to walk away and never say another word about t is baffling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah
So you do have an agenda!
How are you wanting to 'affect' the UPCI? Would you like to see it completely destroyed?
To make a long story short, Baron, y'all were simply voted out. When push came to shove, there were simply more 'three steppers', as it's called here, than 'one steppers'. I'm sorry that people were hurt that had given years to the organization. But for the life of me, I can't see why they ever agreed to become one in the first place. Too far apart when it comes to the 'plan of salvation'.
Some of you seem to have wasted years, trying to 'hold the organization's feet to the fire'.
Don't know what you've accomplished during this time, but it seems to me that you've spent a lot of time and energy trying to 'get back at the organization'.
I think it would be liberating for all of you to forget about the bad old UPCI. Do something productive...like start your own organization!
Oh, ok, lets think about this for a moment....how did the generation of Oneness Pentecostals react to the Assembly of God general conference of 1916? Did they just say "well, we got voted out, lets move on with our lives guys, no need to discuss this anymore." After a few years or decades did they just forget?
NO. In fact it is still occasionally whined about how mean those ole Assembly of God guys were. Its PRESERVED in all the histories written by oneness Pentecostals. So history is only worth preserving when THEY are the ones who played the martyr, while those who were victims of similar injustices are told "just get over it".
Its called a double standard, and sadly, its what the UPC has majored on.
Lets move on, fine. We need to, but I find it ironic that nearly 100 years later some in the UPC still decry the happenings of the AG conference, while telling others to just shut up about what happened a mere 20 years ago.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Oh, ok, lets think about this for a moment....how did the generation of Oneness Pentecostals react to the Assembly of God general conference of 1916? Did they just say "well, we got voted out, lets move on with our lives guys, no need to discuss this anymore." After a few years or decades did they just forget?
NO. In fact it is still occasionally whined about how mean those ole Assembly of God guys were. Its PRESERVED in all the histories written by oneness Pentecostals. So history is only worth preserving when THEY are the ones who played the martyr, while those who were victims of similar injustices are told "just get over it".
Its called a double standard, and sadly, its what the UPC has majored on.
Lets move on, fine. We need to, but I find it ironic that nearly 100 years later some in the UPC still decry the happenings of the AG conference, while telling others to just shut up about what happened a mere 20 years ago.
Funny years ago I talked to my old pastor and he asked me where I was going to church and I told the Assembly of God, all he could say was why the Assembly??? I told him because it was not UPC, and all he said was yea I know that but why the Assemblies???
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Funny years ago I talked to my old pastor and he asked me where I was going to church and I told the Assembly of God, all he could say was why the Assembly??? I told him because it was not UPC, and all he said was yea I know that but why the Assemblies???
Navy!
When I told my family about leaving Oneness, that is THE EXACT same question my Mom had?
She was very disheartened that of all the churches to attend, I had decided to attend an AG church!
She had a couple other questions too, but your old Pastor's wording and her wording were exact matches.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
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