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09-17-2013, 05:31 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Deep South
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
No misrepresentation. The point of the title wasn't that no UPC preacher preaches about the cross, but that those that hold the water/spirit doctrine have no need for a cross.
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Have no need for the cross?? Good grief, Baron...without the cross there could be no water/spirit doctrine!
I have to be missing something here. Surely you don't think we're that ignorant...
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09-17-2013, 05:36 PM
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Repent and believe the Gospel!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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09-17-2013, 05:43 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah
Have no need for the cross?? Good grief, Baron...without the cross there could be no water/spirit doctrine!
I have to be missing something here. Surely you don't think we're that ignorant...
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Have you read the book?
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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09-17-2013, 05:56 PM
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Location: Deep South
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
Have you read the book?
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No, I haven't, Baron. I was just reacting to your statement that 'those who hold to the water/spirit doctrine feel they have no need for the cross'.
I'll never understand why some of you want to leave Jesus hanging on the cross. He died for us...but he surely didn't stay dead!
Jesus died for our sins, he was buried, and arose. We die out to our sins by repentance, we're buried with him in baptism, and arise to walk in a newness of life through the Holy Ghost!
It's an insult to say that we ignore the cross...
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09-17-2013, 06:25 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 16,746
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah
No, I haven't, Baron. I was just reacting to your statement that 'those who hold to the water/spirit doctrine feel they have no need for the cross'.
I'll never understand why some of you want to leave Jesus hanging on the cross. He died for us...but he surely didn't stay dead!
Jesus died for our sins, he was buried, and arose. We die out to our sins by repentance, we're buried with him in baptism, and arise to walk in a newness of life through the Holy Ghost!
It's an insult to say that we ignore the cross...
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I know your talking to Baron, but during my stint in the org during the 80's it was baptism in Jesus name, tongue talking, and strict adherence to holiness standards, and obeying the "man of gawd!" that saved. Forget about the cross. I NEVER heard grace mentioned.
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09-17-2013, 06:43 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,076
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne
I know your talking to Baron, but during my stint in the org during the 80's it was baptism in Jesus name, tongue talking, and strict adherence to holiness standards, and obeying the "man of gawd!" that saved. Forget about the cross. I NEVER heard grace mentioned.
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I believe you are accurately describing the experience you had, just as I am accurately describing mine.
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09-17-2013, 06:44 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
I hear grace and the cross often
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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09-18-2013, 04:46 AM
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God's Son
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,743
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
Grace and the cross with conditions are preached in UPCI pulpits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
I hear grace and the cross often
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__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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09-17-2013, 07:25 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah
No, I haven't, Baron. I was just reacting to your statement that 'those who hold to the water/spirit doctrine feel they have no need for the cross'.
I'll never understand why some of you want to leave Jesus hanging on the cross. He died for us...but he surely didn't stay dead!
Jesus died for our sins, he was buried, and arose. We die out to our sins by repentance, we're buried with him in baptism, and arise to walk in a newness of life through the Holy Ghost!
It's an insult to say that we ignore the cross...
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I will let Mr. Fudge speak for himself about the title of the book. This is an excerpt of an email he sent me.
"Three days ago I was with Loren Yadon and he mentioned your name. I can well imagine that few people connected to the UPC want to review the book. I am also aware that the UPC takes the view that no impartial reviewer can possible see any merit in the book. Good luck.
I did consider other titles for the book and as the introduction to the book states I was well aware that the title would cause some discomfort. Two points: One, I like attention getting titles. Second, it is my firm belief that the title is accurate. In terms of the doctrine of salvation, I could find little evidence that the preaching of the message and work of the cross figures centrally in a context dominated by water and Spirit. At one point I thought about just using the subtitle, or substituting "Water and Spirit" for "Christianity Without the Cross". In the end, I stayed with the latter."
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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