Do you have to support Israel no matter what?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

Israel is a defacto secular nation...

You mean like the former governments of Egypt, Libya, Iraq, and the current government of Syria?

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You mean like the former governments of Egypt, Libya, Iraq, and the current government of Syria?

No. A clue for you might have been my phrase "Arab mindset," in distinction to Israel's western-derived political ethic. (Makes sense since hundreds of thousands of future Israelis migrated from Europe between 1929-33.)

But okay, seems regrettable that the USA govt. decided to throw the Shaw of Iran (a secular muslim) under the bus. He had been educated in Switzerland (an interesting place to learn something about political tolerance,) and he supported recognition of Israel. No, I wasn't trying to teach a compare-and-contrast lesson about middle east politics, not that I could anyhow.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

No. A clue for you might have been my phrase "Arab mindset," in distinction to Israel's western-derived political ethic. (Makes sense since hundreds of thousands of future Israelis migrated from Europe between 1929-33.)

But okay, seems regrettable that the USA govt. decided to throw the Shaw of Iran (a secular muslim) under the bus. He had been educated in Switzerland (an interesting place to learn something about political tolerance,) and he supported recognition of Israel. No, I wasn't trying to teach a compare-and-contrast lesson about middle east politics, not that I could anyhow.

Libya was a secular government. Gadaffi was gunnin for the Muslim Brotherhood and other 'radical Islamists'. Syria has a secular government. Iraq had a secular government. Of course such nations have an 'Arab mindset', just as the Israelis have an 'Israeli mindset' and Europeans have a European mindset.

We have been steadily overthrowing and overturning and eliminating secular Arab states, and what have they been replaced with? The Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, radical Shia and Sunni jihadists, etc.

Interestingly, we love and support Saudi Arabia, the source of Wahabbism (radical jihadism), a completely Islamic religious state.

As for Israel being all for freedom, and all the Arabs being opposed to freedom (they hate us for our freedoms???), that is silly.

'Freedom' has lost its meaning worldwide. The 'West' is not much different than the old Iron Curtain these days, and any discrepancies are quickly being made up for.

Israel still practices a form of 'apartheid'. Remember when that was bad? SA anyone?

There are no 'good guys' anymore.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Israel still practices a form of 'apartheid'. Remember when that was bad? SA anyone?

Again, lets put things in context. The people that Israel is trying to keep seperated from everybody else are the Palistinians who have a national stated objective of distroying the nation of Israel and seeing Jerusalem as the capital of an Islamists Palistinian nation.


I suggest to you that Isreal has been utterly patient with these people far more than I would have been.

I would have built me a huge bull dozer and pushed them all off into the Med.