The Real Evidence of Salvation

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Interesting that not one time is tongues mentioned in epistles to confirm believers salvation. That's something to consider.

Tongues are mentioned in only 1 out of 21 epistles. And in the epistle they are mentioned in we are asked the rhetorical question "do all speak in tongues?"

[Dordrecht]

No, not all do.
Only the ones baptized with the Holy Spirit.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

No, not all do.
Only the ones baptized with the Holy Spirit.

And all who don't are lost.

[renee819]

Oh Jason, Jason, I see so many wrong assumptions in your writing, it's impossible to answer them all. And most have been answered by others, but do you believe them?

Jason wrote,

1)We can know that we are saved if we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah/Christ, that He came in the flesh, made atonement for our sins, and is God. These are the theological tests

No! No! No!, The people that know what you wrote above, can now, REPENT. But a lot of people know that, but don't repent. Some repent and backslide. Just because they know that, does not mean that they are saved.

Most of the rest of what you wrote in your first Post, is after a person is born again, and continuing in the Faith.
I don't know why you don't see that the Epistles were written to people that were already born again. And the mention of “tongues” in 1 Cor. 12, is not even about the evidence of the Holy Ghost.
It is one of the “gifts of the Spirit” that some, not all receive, After they receive the Holy Ghost.

You can't have the “gifts' without the “Giver.” That is why Evangelicals don't have the gifts and so they say, 'that they have ceased.”

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819

Jason wrote,........
.
Then Jason what are you saying here?

“ We can know that we are saved if we believe that Jesus is the Son of God”---mental assent--+---- knowing that we are saved?

Jason wrote,
I'm talking about the 3 categories in
1 John. You cherry picked one of the three to make a point or perhaps simply misunderstood my point. John also teaches that true believers must pass the moral and social tests also. I laid out all 3 of these in the opening post. To ignore the essentiality of the other two categories is to miss my whole argument from 1 John.

OK, then let's take all three, the only reason that I picked that one is because the other 2, are attributes of a saved person. But this one shows that the person is ready to repent and be born again and shouldn't be in with the other 2.
Jason wrote,

1)We can know that we are saved if we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah/Christ, that He came in the flesh, made atonement for our sins, and is God. These are the theological tests

.

Obviously, if the person is told they are saved, because they believe Jesus is the Son of God,----then that is mental assent. However, they should believe all of No1, before they repent.

Jason wrote

2)We can know that we are saved if we have love for fellow Christians (in the modern sense this would mean not only those of our own organization, that is in fact the opposite, a party spirit), love for all people, and genuine concern and compassion for those who are in need. In a word-if our lives are defined by love for others, it is a strong evidence that we belong to God. These are the social tests

.

And yes, LOVE, is one of the biggest Tests that reveals a true child of God. The Fruit of the Spirit, works with love. Faith will not work, without love.
But love can be an outward show that can be carried out in public, just for show for certain people, while hating others. You know like, that stupid race, or those stupid Republicans or stupid Democrats.
Love should be for all mankind, and especially the brothers and sisters, and yes that would be, those born again according to Acts 2;38. And that is not a Party Spirit. That is demanded by God.

Jason wrote

3)We can know that we are saved if we are trying to live Christ like lives, defined by holiness, godliness, righteousness, and a keeping of God's commandments. If our lives reflect Christ we can know that we are saved. These are the moral tests

.

Absolutely! But then we can't turn around and preach, “we sin every day.' “you're just human, so don't worry about it” Or even worse, once saved always saved.
Not saying that you believe or teach any of that, but most that don't understand the power of the Holy Ghost to help keep us from sin, do say those things.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Tongues are mentioned in only 1 out of 21 epistles. And in the epistle they are mentioned in we are asked the rhetorical question "do all speak in tongues?"

I have no problem believing that one can be born again of the Spirit and, for one reason or another, miss out on the blessing and benefit of tongues. We all are going to miss out on blessings and benefits we were supposed to have. Humans are full of ignorance and weaknesses that do at times hinder us from receiving what God is trying to give us. Tongues are no different.


The real issue to me is not "do all speak with tongues'. Rather, it is 'when are we born again?"

I see nothing in Acts that indicates the Spirit came automatically at the moment of belief. There was a delay of moments to days. Paul would not have asked the men of Ephesus "did you receive the Holy Ghost WHEN you believed?" if it was a by gone conclusion that the Spirit was received immediately upon believing the gospel. Furthermore, there is not a shred of scripture that teaches one if first "born of the Spirit" and later "baptized in the Spirit".

Of course this is problematic to those who are hung up on "instantaneous salvation".

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The real issue to me is not "do all speak with tongues'. Rather, it is 'when are we born again?"

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Seems self explanatory to me.

But that's not the subject of the thread.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Seems self explanatory to me.

But that's not the subject of the thread.

I have never heard an apostolic preach on justification by faith. Not sure it unlearned or just scared of it.