End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The male is called a prophet and a female is called a prophetess....that is the difference!

Yes, a fact that seems to continually be ignored because it doesn't fit the theology.

And one more small detail from scripture: there aren't any records of prophets preaching/teaching from the Word of God to a congregation.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Yes, a fact that seems to continually be ignored because it doesn't fit the theology.

And one more small detail from scripture: there aren't any records of prophets preaching/teaching from the Word of God to a congregation.

LOL - You really need to quit - you women put your foot in your mouth virtually every time you try:


2 Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. 3 He read from it before the square which was in front of the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. 4. Ezra the scribe stood at a wooden podium which they had made for the purpose.



And there are many-many more where that came from ! Now, please provide the reference where a woman did the same:_________?



Go play - you don't know what you're doing - & you just demonstrated this once again !

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by rdp

LOL - You really need to quit - you women put your foot in your mouth virtually every time you try:


2 Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. 3 He read from it before the square which was in front of the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. 4. Ezra the scribe stood at a wooden podium which they had made for the purpose.



And there are many-many more where that came from ! Now, please provide the reference where a woman did the same:_________?



Go play - you don't know what you're doing - & you just demonstrated this once again !

No need to yell at people.

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by rdp

LOL - You really need to quit - you women put your foot in your mouth virtually every time you try:


2 Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. 3 He read from it before the square which was in front of the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. 4. Ezra the scribe stood at a wooden podium which they had made for the purpose.



And there are many-many more where that came from ! Now, please provide the reference where a woman did the same:_________?



Go play - you don't know what you're doing - & you just demonstrated this once again !

Actually, you need to go back to the nursery. It is amazing to see that a man who makes his living preaching the Word of God doesn't know the difference between a prophet, a priest and a scribe.

[Praxeas]

2:12 teach or to exercise authority over a man The closest parallel to this instruction appears in 1 Cor 14:34–35. The context there is the church’s public gatherings. The teaching role in public settings was traditionally assigned to males in Jewish and Graeco-Roman culture. The practical implications of Paul’s statement depend on the interpretive option chosen for this part of Paul’s letter (see note on vv. 11–15).

This statement can be understood as presenting two prohibitions: A woman cannot teach or exercise authority over a man. If so, Paul presents two independent but related commands. The verse can also be read as a single prohibition (i.e., not to teach) followed by an explanation (i.e., not to exercise authority). This interpretation, based on the syntax and combination of specific Greek verbs, results in “I do not permit a woman to teach so as to exercise authority over a man.” The essence of Paul’s teaching is the same with either option. Paul’s main concern was the church’s ability to minister effectively without appearing to disregard cultural traditions, which would alienate the general population.


Barry, J. D., Grigoni, M. R., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible (1 Ti 2:12). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

[Praxeas]

2:12 to teach: Paul uses a Greek word that indicates the type of teaching that was found in the Jewish communities and synagogues from which he had come. Such teaching was more than giving information to students. It included the call by the rabbi, or teacher, to have his disciples listen, believe, and practice his words. Such teaching was built on the revelation of God and assumed that there would be some sort of oversight, like that exercised in the early church by the elders (see 4:11; 4:16–5:2; 2 Tim. 3:17; 4:1–4; Titus 2:15; 3:8–11 ).

Generally those who exercised this responsibility in the early church had the spiritual gift of teaching (see Rom. 12:7; 1 Cor. 12:28), but not every gift of teaching (by men or women) was necessarily to be exercised over the entire congregation. The word or seems to indicate that teach is defined by the phrase have authority over a man. It seems best to understand this passage as teaching that women may exercise their spiritual gifts in a variety of ministries in a local assembly (see 2 Tim. 3:14; Titus 2:3, 4), as long as those gifts are exercised under the appropriate leadership of men. Other commentators have viewed this verse as an example of Paul using his apostolic authority to curb the spread in Ephesus of false teaching (see 1:3–7) that apparently was becoming popular among some women who had not been properly instructed (see v. 11).

Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1997). The Nelson Study Bible: New King James Version (1 Ti 2:12). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

2:12 teach or to exercise authority over a man The closest parallel to this instruction appears in 1 Cor 14:34–35. The context there is the church’s public gatherings. The teaching role in public settings was traditionally assigned to males in Jewish and Graeco-Roman culture. The practical implications of Paul’s statement depend on the interpretive option chosen for this part of Paul’s letter (see note on vv. 11–15).

This statement can be understood as presenting two prohibitions: A woman cannot teach or exercise authority over a man. If so, Paul presents two independent but related commands. The verse can also be read as a single prohibition (i.e., not to teach) followed by an explanation (i.e., not to exercise authority). This interpretation, based on the syntax and combination of specific Greek verbs, results in “I do not permit a woman to teach so as to exercise authority over a man.” The essence of Paul’s teaching is the same with either option. Paul’s main concern was the church’s ability to minister effectively without appearing to disregard cultural traditions, which would alienate the general population.


Barry, J. D., Grigoni, M. R., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible (1 Ti 2:12). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

Umm, okay, nice commentary, but I asked if you believe a woman can teach men in the church? Anyone can copy-paste from Logos commentaries (which I knew you would start with ). Has nothing to do with mere "cultural traditions" - Paul appeals to the created order as his support for the prohibition - not "culture" - silly.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

2:12 to teach: Paul uses a Greek word that indicates the type of teaching that was found in the Jewish communities and synagogues from which he had come. Such teaching was more than giving information to students. It included the call by the rabbi, or teacher, to have his disciples listen, believe, and practice his words. Such teaching was built on the revelation of God and assumed that there would be some sort of oversight, like that exercised in the early church by the elders (see 4:11; 4:16–5:2; 2 Tim. 3:17; 4:1–4; Titus 2:15; 3:8–11 ).

Generally those who exercised this responsibility in the early church had the spiritual gift of teaching (see Rom. 12:7; 1 Cor. 12:28), but not every gift of teaching (by men or women) was necessarily to be exercised over the entire congregation. The word or seems to indicate that teach is defined by the phrase have authority over a man. It seems best to understand this passage as teaching that women may exercise their spiritual gifts in a variety of ministries in a local assembly (see 2 Tim. 3:14; Titus 2:3, 4), as long as those gifts are exercised under the appropriate leadership of men. Other commentators have viewed this verse as an example of Paul using his apostolic authority to curb the spread in Ephesus of false teaching (see 1:3–7) that apparently was becoming popular among some women who had not been properly instructed (see v. 11).

Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1997). The Nelson Study Bible: New King James Version (1 Ti 2:12). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.

Ummm, okay - not interested in mere "commentators" - only the biblical grammar & data. Dr. Grudem puts the speculative (& flawed) argument that "some women had not been properly instructed in Ephesus" in the grave where it belongs: http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Fe.../dp/1581347340


Did you not read the emails from Dr. Wallace that I have regarding the specific syntax of I Timothy 2.11-14? This is the most in-depth exegetical rejoinder to the commentators you've referenced (& has stood without serious challenge for almost a decade now): http://www.amazon.com/Women-Church-A.../dp/080102904X


Here's a brief-succinct review of the thesis: http://andynaselli.com/wp-content/up..._1tim_2121.pdf


Check back in tomorrow to continue the party !

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rdp

Umm, okay, nice commentary, but I asked if you believe a woman can teach men in the church? Anyone can copy-paste from Logos commentaries (which I knew you would start with ). Has nothing to do with mere "cultural traditions" - Paul appeals to the created order as his support for the prohibition - not "culture" - silly.








Ummm, okay - not interested in mere "commentators" - only the biblical grammar & data. Dr. Grudem puts the speculative (& flawed) argument that "some women had not been properly instructed in Ephesus" in the grave where it belongs: http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Fe.../dp/1581347340


Did you not read the emails from Dr. Wallace that I have regarding the specific syntax of I Timothy 2.11-14? This is the most in-depth exegetical rejoinder to the commentators you've referenced (& has stood without serious challenge for almost a decade now): http://www.amazon.com/Women-Church-A.../dp/080102904X


Here's a brief-succinct review of the thesis: http://andynaselli.com/wp-content/up..._1tim_2121.pdf


Check back in tomorrow to continue the party !

I don't really know for sure. I'm wondering why Paul said "I don't allow" rather than "The Lord does not allow".

Those commentaries seem to suggest it was more of a cultural issue as well as a linguistic issue (seeing teach and authority as one issue)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rdp

Umm, okay, nice commentary, but I asked if you believe a woman can teach men in the church? Anyone can copy-paste from Logos commentaries (which I knew you would start with ). Has nothing to do with mere "cultural traditions" - Paul appeals to the created order as his support for the prohibition - not "culture" - silly.








Ummm, okay - not interested in mere "commentators" - only the biblical grammar & data. Dr. Grudem puts the speculative (& flawed) argument that "some women had not been properly instructed in Ephesus" in the grave where it belongs: http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Fe.../dp/1581347340


Did you not read the emails from Dr. Wallace that I have regarding the specific syntax of I Timothy 2.11-14? This is the most in-depth exegetical rejoinder to the commentators you've referenced (& has stood without serious challenge for almost a decade now): http://www.amazon.com/Women-Church-A.../dp/080102904X


Here's a brief-succinct review of the thesis: http://andynaselli.com/wp-content/up..._1tim_2121.pdf


Check back in tomorrow to continue the party !

BTW I didn't post these for you but for everyone to read and consider

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Actually, you need to go back to the nursery. It is amazing to see that a man who makes his living preaching the Word of God doesn't know the difference between a prophet, a priest and a scribe.

LOL - Though not technically a "prophet" - Ezra is often referred to as a "prophet" within academia. Here's an very in-depth thesis on Ezra - & he's listed as a "prophet": http://www.ibiblio.org/freebiblecomm...EN/VOL08OT.pdf & Here: http://www.amazon.com/Ezra-Prophet-P.../dp/B004HO5JLA



In fact, Ezra is often compared to the prophet Moses within Judaism: http://www.jewishhistory.org/ezra-and-nehemiah/



Still, the point remains fully in-tact that you will never produce a passage where a woman expounds from Scripture to a congregation of any sort !



Sorry, try again !