End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by rdp

LOL - You really need to quit - you women put your foot in your mouth virtually every time you try:


2 Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. 3 He read from it before the square which was in front of the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. 4. Ezra the scribe stood at a wooden podium which they had made for the purpose.



And there are many-many more where that came from ! Now, please provide the reference where a woman did the same:_________?



Go play - you don't know what you're doing - & you just demonstrated this once again !

Actually, you need to go back to the nursery. It is amazing to see that a man who makes his living preaching the Word of God doesn't know the difference between a prophet, a priest and a scribe.

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by Pliny

This is the fallacy of arguing from silence.

But that is the argument that continues to be presented from the other side of the discussion, with the repeated asking for instances in scripture where women 'expounded from a text of scripture'. Make up your minds, gentlemen, stop trying to have it both ways.

[Roxanne Murphy]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Men or women cannot win a soul.
The Holy Spirit does.

…and of course the Holy Spirit is male….

And of course, we overlooked this scripture:

The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise. (Proverbs 11:30 KJV)

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

And of course, we overlooked this scripture:

The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise. (Proverbs 11:30 KJV)

[rdp]

Praxeas: "Can a woman preach the gospel to a man though? Out on the street or at his door? Not talking about bible studies."


Since this is really the only portion of your post with any "substance" - It is the only quote I'll respond to.

I have stated over & over & over & over on this thread that I believe that both men & women should win the lost - if you wish to call that "preaching" that's fine with me.


But, that is NOT what most are suggesting on here, nor is it what's mostly meant when the expression "woman-preacher" is used within a modern pentecostal paradigm.


Most are referring to a woman taking a biblical text & then expounding upon that text to both men & women in the church. This is clearly & diametrically opposed to the Scriptures - despite the stubborn denials of the same.


Regarding your reference to Dr. White - apparently you're infatuated with him as are others - I'm not .


And, still waiting on an answer from you regarding I Timothy 2.11-15 - Do you believe a woman should "teach" men in the church? Waiting......


You can deny until doomsday that "teaching" & "preaching" are used synonymously - won't make it any less true biblically (O', & no, the examples I posted are not at all explaining different actions - plumb silly argument).


Have Fun (see how easy that was?)!

[Praxeas]

2:12 teach or to exercise authority over a man The closest parallel to this instruction appears in 1 Cor 14:34–35. The context there is the church’s public gatherings. The teaching role in public settings was traditionally assigned to males in Jewish and Graeco-Roman culture. The practical implications of Paul’s statement depend on the interpretive option chosen for this part of Paul’s letter (see note on vv. 11–15).

This statement can be understood as presenting two prohibitions: A woman cannot teach or exercise authority over a man. If so, Paul presents two independent but related commands. The verse can also be read as a single prohibition (i.e., not to teach) followed by an explanation (i.e., not to exercise authority). This interpretation, based on the syntax and combination of specific Greek verbs, results in “I do not permit a woman to teach so as to exercise authority over a man.” The essence of Paul’s teaching is the same with either option. Paul’s main concern was the church’s ability to minister effectively without appearing to disregard cultural traditions, which would alienate the general population.


Barry, J. D., Grigoni, M. R., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible (1 Ti 2:12). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

[Praxeas]

2:12 to teach: Paul uses a Greek word that indicates the type of teaching that was found in the Jewish communities and synagogues from which he had come. Such teaching was more than giving information to students. It included the call by the rabbi, or teacher, to have his disciples listen, believe, and practice his words. Such teaching was built on the revelation of God and assumed that there would be some sort of oversight, like that exercised in the early church by the elders (see 4:11; 4:16–5:2; 2 Tim. 3:17; 4:1–4; Titus 2:15; 3:8–11 ).

Generally those who exercised this responsibility in the early church had the spiritual gift of teaching (see Rom. 12:7; 1 Cor. 12:28), but not every gift of teaching (by men or women) was necessarily to be exercised over the entire congregation. The word or seems to indicate that teach is defined by the phrase have authority over a man. It seems best to understand this passage as teaching that women may exercise their spiritual gifts in a variety of ministries in a local assembly (see 2 Tim. 3:14; Titus 2:3, 4), as long as those gifts are exercised under the appropriate leadership of men. Other commentators have viewed this verse as an example of Paul using his apostolic authority to curb the spread in Ephesus of false teaching (see 1:3–7) that apparently was becoming popular among some women who had not been properly instructed (see v. 11).

Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1997). The Nelson Study Bible: New King James Version (1 Ti 2:12). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Actually, you need to go back to the nursery. It is amazing to see that a man who makes his living preaching the Word of God doesn't know the difference between a prophet, a priest and a scribe.

LOL - Though not technically a "prophet" - Ezra is often referred to as a "prophet" within academia. Here's an very in-depth thesis on Ezra - & he's listed as a "prophet": http://www.ibiblio.org/freebiblecomm...EN/VOL08OT.pdf & Here: http://www.amazon.com/Ezra-Prophet-P.../dp/B004HO5JLA



In fact, Ezra is often compared to the prophet Moses within Judaism: http://www.jewishhistory.org/ezra-and-nehemiah/



Still, the point remains fully in-tact that you will never produce a passage where a woman expounds from Scripture to a congregation of any sort !



Sorry, try again !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

But that is the argument that continues to be presented from the other side of the discussion, with the repeated asking for instances in scripture where women 'expounded from a text of scripture'. Make up your minds, gentlemen, stop trying to have it both ways.

We're simply asking you to corroborate your views with the Scriptures - which we CAN & HAVE done for our doctrinal position in this area (only to be ignored of course !)


Of course, since this is AFF - so we should know better than to ask for Scriptural support of your views !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

2:12 teach or to exercise authority over a man The closest parallel to this instruction appears in 1 Cor 14:34–35. The context there is the church’s public gatherings. The teaching role in public settings was traditionally assigned to males in Jewish and Graeco-Roman culture. The practical implications of Paul’s statement depend on the interpretive option chosen for this part of Paul’s letter (see note on vv. 11–15).

This statement can be understood as presenting two prohibitions: A woman cannot teach or exercise authority over a man. If so, Paul presents two independent but related commands. The verse can also be read as a single prohibition (i.e., not to teach) followed by an explanation (i.e., not to exercise authority). This interpretation, based on the syntax and combination of specific Greek verbs, results in “I do not permit a woman to teach so as to exercise authority over a man.” The essence of Paul’s teaching is the same with either option. Paul’s main concern was the church’s ability to minister effectively without appearing to disregard cultural traditions, which would alienate the general population.


Barry, J. D., Grigoni, M. R., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible (1 Ti 2:12). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

Umm, okay, nice commentary, but I asked if you believe a woman can teach men in the church? Anyone can copy-paste from Logos commentaries (which I knew you would start with ). Has nothing to do with mere "cultural traditions" - Paul appeals to the created order as his support for the prohibition - not "culture" - silly.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

2:12 to teach: Paul uses a Greek word that indicates the type of teaching that was found in the Jewish communities and synagogues from which he had come. Such teaching was more than giving information to students. It included the call by the rabbi, or teacher, to have his disciples listen, believe, and practice his words. Such teaching was built on the revelation of God and assumed that there would be some sort of oversight, like that exercised in the early church by the elders (see 4:11; 4:16–5:2; 2 Tim. 3:17; 4:1–4; Titus 2:15; 3:8–11 ).

Generally those who exercised this responsibility in the early church had the spiritual gift of teaching (see Rom. 12:7; 1 Cor. 12:28), but not every gift of teaching (by men or women) was necessarily to be exercised over the entire congregation. The word or seems to indicate that teach is defined by the phrase have authority over a man. It seems best to understand this passage as teaching that women may exercise their spiritual gifts in a variety of ministries in a local assembly (see 2 Tim. 3:14; Titus 2:3, 4), as long as those gifts are exercised under the appropriate leadership of men. Other commentators have viewed this verse as an example of Paul using his apostolic authority to curb the spread in Ephesus of false teaching (see 1:3–7) that apparently was becoming popular among some women who had not been properly instructed (see v. 11).

Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1997). The Nelson Study Bible: New King James Version (1 Ti 2:12). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.

Ummm, okay - not interested in mere "commentators" - only the biblical grammar & data. Dr. Grudem puts the speculative (& flawed) argument that "some women had not been properly instructed in Ephesus" in the grave where it belongs: http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Fe.../dp/1581347340


Did you not read the emails from Dr. Wallace that I have regarding the specific syntax of I Timothy 2.11-14? This is the most in-depth exegetical rejoinder to the commentators you've referenced (& has stood without serious challenge for almost a decade now): http://www.amazon.com/Women-Church-A.../dp/080102904X


Here's a brief-succinct review of the thesis: http://andynaselli.com/wp-content/up..._1tim_2121.pdf


Check back in tomorrow to continue the party !