End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by RJR

In light of the fact that woman could witness as empowered by the HG, she could prophesy and pray in the church, she could sing psalms, have an interpretation, speak in tongues, have a revelation. Yet, in verses 34-35 there was a certain kind of speaking she could NOT do in the church, comparing that to 1 Tim 2, would you mind giving an educated guess as to what type of speaking by a woman was prohibited in the church? Keep in mind, the glaring and undeniable precedent established, by the facts, no female priest in temple or tabernacle, no qualifications for a female bishop or deacon, no female apostle chosen by Christ, and coupled with the fact of the definitions of the words as well as their usage, leaves little room for your conclusions, eh?

This is exactly how errors in doctrine occur. Take an instance here, pull a definition from there, use an example over there, stir it up with lack of mention and VOILA!! You have serpent seed doctrine, snake handling doctrine, and no Jesus name baptism doctrine.

You also excuse women to do things that are also not mentioned in scripture with specifics you claim are lacking when it comes to women preaching. You say they can witness but I don't see where a woman in scripture ever did that. You said they can prophesy but I don't see a woman prophesying in the NT.

You can have it both ways. If you just stick to what scripture says and not add your own interpretation to it, you can't go wrong.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sasha

This is exactly how errors in doctrine occur. Take an instance here, pull a definition from there, use an example over there, stir it up with lack of mention and VOILA!! You have serpent seed doctrine, snake handling doctrine, and no Jesus name baptism doctrine.

You also excuse women to do things that are also not mentioned in scripture with specifics you claim are lacking when it comes to women preaching. You say they can witness but I don't see where a woman in scripture ever did that. You said they can prophesy but I don't see a woman prophesying in the NT.

You can have it both ways. If you just stick to what scripture says and not add your own interpretation to it, you can't go wrong.

Sasha, I want to know before I proceed, are you saying that a woman witnessing and prophesying is the same as serpent seed doctrine and "no Jesus name doctrine?"

I can produce the passages where women were told they would witness and prophesy, can you produce one where a woman was told to PREACH? You give your verses and then I will produce mine.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by RJR

Sasha, I want to know before I proceed, are you saying that a woman witnessing and prophesying is the same as serpent seed doctrine and "no Jesus name doctrine?"

I can produce the passages where women were told they would witness and prophesy, can you produce one where a woman was told to PREACH? You give your verses and then I will produce mine.

You can't produce one that explicitly says, "Women shalt not preach". There is not one that says "women, thou shalt preach". Therefore, this whole argument is moot.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

You can't produce one that explicitly says, "Women shalt not preach". There is not one that says "women, thou shalt preach". Therefore, this whole argument is moot.

Pardon me, I didn't know you were Sasha.

Yes, 1 Cor 14:34-35 and 1 Tim. 2:12 says exactly what you say it does not say, it expressly forbids a woman to preach.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by RJR

Pardon me, I didn't know you were Sasha.

Yes, 1 Cor 14:34-35 and 1 Tim. 2:12 says exactly what you say it does not say, it expressly forbids a woman to preach.

Not according to the NET Bible, it doesn't.

From the NET notes on 1 Tim. 2:12... https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Timothy+2

1 Tim. 2:12 But I do not allow. Although the Greek conjunction δέ (de) can have a simple connective force (“and”), it is best to take it as contrastive here: Verse 11 gives a positive statement (that is to say, that a woman should learn). This was a radical and liberating departure from the Jewish view that women were not to learn the law

exercise authority 20 over a man: According to BDAG 150 s.v. αὐθεντέω this Greek verb means “to assume a stance of independent authority, give orders to, dictate to” (cf. JB “tell a man what to do”).

Grk “but to be in quietness.” The phrase ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ (en Jhsucia) is used in Greek literature either of absolute silence or of a quiet demeanor.

You guys are just picking and choosing a translation that says what you want it to say. To your own detriment, the NET Bible had RDP's hero, Daniel Wallace, working with the translation. Why doesn't it say what RDP wants it to say?

It says, Women can learn, not "women can't preach".... !

Hmm....

the word "teach" according to the Net:
διδασκο(1321)
Pronunciation: did-as'-ko
Origin: a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn)
Reference: TDNT - 2:135,161
Part of Speech: v
In Greek: διδασκε 2, διδασκει 3, διδασκειν 13, διδασκεις 7, διδασκη 1, διδασκοντες 9, διδασκοντι 1, διδασκοντος 1, διδασκω 1, διδασκων 23, διδαξαι 3, διδαξει 2, διδαξη 2, διδαξον 1, διδαξωσιν 1, εδιδαχθην 1, εδιδαχθησαν 1, εδιδαχθητε 3, εδιδασκεν 14, εδιδασκον 2, εδιδαξα 1, εδιδαξαν 1, εδιδαξας 1, εδιδαξεν 3
In NET: teaching 20, taught 13, teach 12, to teach 10, began to teach 6, was teaching 4, teaches 3, will teach 2, while teaching 2, he taught 2, while was teaching 2, by teaching 2, he began to teach 1, do you teach 1, he was teaching 1, I teach 1, Teach 1, While was teaching 1, Does teach 1, began teaching 1, you teach 1, were taught 1, were teaching 1, who teaches 1, will be need to teach 1, they were instructed 1, you taught 1, it has taught 1, learn 1, you were taught 1, instructed 1
Count: 97
Definition: 1) to teach 1a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses 1b) to be a teacher 1c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher 2) to teach one 2a) to impart instruction 2b) instill doctrine into one 2c) the thing taught or enjoined 2d) to explain or expound a thing 2f) to teach one something
a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application):-teach.


NOPE, NOT THERE.... This scripture does NOT say that a woman cannot preach!

[RJR]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Not according to the NET Bible, it doesn't.

From the NET notes on 1 Tim. 2:12... https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Timothy+2

1 Tim. 2:12 But I do not allow. Although the Greek conjunction δέ (de) can have a simple connective force (“and”), it is best to take it as contrastive here: Verse 11 gives a positive statement (that is to say, that a woman should learn). This was a radical and liberating departure from the Jewish view that women were not to learn the law

exercise authority 20 over a man: According to BDAG 150 s.v. αὐθεντέω this Greek verb means “to assume a stance of independent authority, give orders to, dictate to” (cf. JB “tell a man what to do”).

Grk “but to be in quietness.” The phrase ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ (en Jhsucia) is used in Greek literature either of absolute silence or of a quiet demeanor.

You guys are just picking and choosing a translation that says what you want it to say. To your own detriment, the NET Bible had RDP's hero, Daniel Wallace, working with the translation. Why doesn't it say what RDP wants it to say?

It says, Women can learn, not "women can't preach".... !

Hmm....

the word "teach" according to the Net:
διδασκο(1321)
Pronunciation: did-as'-ko
Origin: a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn)
Reference: TDNT - 2:135,161
Part of Speech: v
In Greek: διδασκε 2, διδασκει 3, διδασκειν 13, διδασκεις 7, διδασκη 1, διδασκοντες 9, διδασκοντι 1, διδασκοντος 1, διδασκω 1, διδασκων 23, διδαξαι 3, διδαξει 2, διδαξη 2, διδαξον 1, διδαξωσιν 1, εδιδαχθην 1, εδιδαχθησαν 1, εδιδαχθητε 3, εδιδασκεν 14, εδιδασκον 2, εδιδαξα 1, εδιδαξαν 1, εδιδαξας 1, εδιδαξεν 3
In NET: teaching 20, taught 13, teach 12, to teach 10, began to teach 6, was teaching 4, teaches 3, will teach 2, while teaching 2, he taught 2, while was teaching 2, by teaching 2, he began to teach 1, do you teach 1, he was teaching 1, I teach 1, Teach 1, While was teaching 1, Does teach 1, began teaching 1, you teach 1, were taught 1, were teaching 1, who teaches 1, will be need to teach 1, they were instructed 1, you taught 1, it has taught 1, learn 1, you were taught 1, instructed 1
Count: 97
Definition: 1) to teach 1a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses 1b) to be a teacher 1c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher 2) to teach one 2a) to impart instruction 2b) instill doctrine into one 2c) the thing taught or enjoined 2d) to explain or expound a thing 2f) to teach one something
a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application):-teach.


NOPE, NOT THERE.... This scripture does NOT say that a woman cannot preach!

Pretty good description in bolded of what a woman is not suppose to do.

Not that I want Biblical facts to get in your way, but silence does not mean absolute silence, the same word silence is used in 1 Cor 14:28 and said the man who was to be in silence could SPEAK, it only modified how he could speak.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by RJR

Pretty good description in bolded of what a woman is not suppose to do.

Not that I want Biblical facts to get in your way, but silence does not mean absolute silence, the same word silence is used in 1 Cor 14:28 and said the man who was to be in silence could SPEAK, it only modified how he could speak.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Not according to the NET Bible, it doesn't.

From the NET notes on 1 Tim. 2:12... https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Timothy+2

1 Tim. 2:12 But I do not allow. Although the Greek conjunction δέ (de) can have a simple connective force (“and”), it is best to take it as contrastive here: Verse 11 gives a positive statement (that is to say, that a woman should learn). This was a radical and liberating departure from the Jewish view that women were not to learn the law

exercise authority 20 over a man: According to BDAG 150 s.v. αὐθεντέω this Greek verb means “to assume a stance of independent authority, give orders to, dictate to” (cf. JB “tell a man what to do”).

Grk “but to be in quietness.” The phrase ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ (en Jhsucia) is used in Greek literature either of absolute silence or of a quiet demeanor.

You guys are just picking and choosing a translation that says what you want it to say. To your own detriment, the NET Bible had RDP's hero, Daniel Wallace, working with the translation. Why doesn't it say what RDP wants it to say?

It says, Women can learn, not "women can't preach".... !

Hmm....

the word "teach" according to the Net:
διδασκο(1321)
Pronunciation: did-as'-ko
Origin: a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn)
Reference: TDNT - 2:135,161
Part of Speech: v
In Greek: διδασκε 2, διδασκει 3, διδασκειν 13, διδασκεις 7, διδασκη 1, διδασκοντες 9, διδασκοντι 1, διδασκοντος 1, διδασκω 1, διδασκων 23, διδαξαι 3, διδαξει 2, διδαξη 2, διδαξον 1, διδαξωσιν 1, εδιδαχθην 1, εδιδαχθησαν 1, εδιδαχθητε 3, εδιδασκεν 14, εδιδασκον 2, εδιδαξα 1, εδιδαξαν 1, εδιδαξας 1, εδιδαξεν 3
In NET: teaching 20, taught 13, teach 12, to teach 10, began to teach 6, was teaching 4, teaches 3, will teach 2, while teaching 2, he taught 2, while was teaching 2, by teaching 2, he began to teach 1, do you teach 1, he was teaching 1, I teach 1, Teach 1, While was teaching 1, Does teach 1, began teaching 1, you teach 1, were taught 1, were teaching 1, who teaches 1, will be need to teach 1, they were instructed 1, you taught 1, it has taught 1, learn 1, you were taught 1, instructed 1
Count: 97
Definition: 1) to teach 1a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses 1b) to be a teacher 1c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher 2) to teach one 2a) to impart instruction 2b) instill doctrine into one 2c) the thing taught or enjoined 2d) to explain or expound a thing 2f) to teach one something
a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application):-teach.


NOPE, NOT THERE.... This scripture does NOT say that a woman cannot preach!

LOL - Typical willful ignorance. Ummm, thank you for doing the work for us! I will more closely exegete this for you later tonight &, once again, we'll see that you just out your foot in your mouth....AGAIN ! Y'all do it EVERYTIME you appeal to the Greek text....As you just did AGAIN!


All I will say for now is it is YOU who is being "selective" in what you appeal to - & even then there's absolutely nothing that detracts from what this text clearly states....Do YOU accept what Wallace stated in the email to me? Watch that "selectivity" now !




Yes, these texts clearly forbid women from "preaching-teaching" men in the church - & even worse, the data you just quoted facilitates that understanding. Back a little later to embarrass you in your textual error & appeals - once AGAIN !

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by rdp

LOL - Typical willful ignorance. Ummm, thank you for doing the work for us! I will more closely exegete this for you later tonight &, once again, we'll see that you just out your foot in your mouth....AGAIN ! Y'all do it EVERYTIME you appeal to the Greek text....As you just did AGAIN!


All I will say for now is it is YOU who is being "selective" in what you appeal to - & even then there's absolutely nothing that detracts from what this text clearly states....Do YOU accept what Wallace stated in the email to me? Watch that "selectivity" now !




Yes, these texts clearly forbid women from "preaching-teaching" men in the church - & even worse, the data you just quoted facilitates that understanding. Back a little later to embarrass you in your textual error & appeals - once AGAIN !

LOL back at ya... shall I expect more of your copy/paste jobs.... no matter how you dig, there is no scripture that prohibits a woman from preaching.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by RJR

Pardon me, I didn't know you were Sasha.

Yes, 1 Cor 14:34-35 and 1 Tim. 2:12 says exactly what you say it does not say, it expressly forbids a woman to preach.