Knowledge is such a fickle thing. Can you ever truly know 100% for a fact that your wife never ever cheated on you? You can't! Human knowledge is based primarily on trust. Whether it's trusting your senses or trusting your wife, our knowledge stems from trust. Trust is faith. It's not blind faith, but its still faith. We can't really know anything because at any time our eyes may be playing tricks on us, our wife may be lying to us, or maybe what we thought happened only occured in a dream.
So our knowledge of anything is based on faith and trust. So next time NotForSale asks how do you know there is an afterlife. Politely ask him how he knows his wife hasn't cheated on him. His reasons for believing his wife hasn't cheated on him are pretty similiar to your reasons for believing in an afterlife i assure you
You make some really good points, but still, some things are provable. The afterlife is not one of them. That's what NFS is trying to say.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
Well if course it's not. But you have to realize that in the context that most everyday truths we take for granted are not provable either.
I think the difference is that we have been told repeatedly that you are going to hell if you do this and heaven if you do that when no one even knows for sure there is a heaven, particularly, as NFS says, the Jews didn't even make the afterlife a focal point. My issue is not the afterlife so much, but I see what NFS is trying to say. End of story is that people shouldn't hold heaven/hell over people's heads and use it as a beating stick. I have seen that a lot in my life. Way too much, in fact.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
I think the difference is that we have been told repeatedly that you are going to hell if you do this and heaven if you do that when no one even knows for sure there is a heaven, particularly, as NFS says, the Jews didn't even make the afterlife a focal point. My issue is not the afterlife so much, but I see what NFS is trying to say. End of story is that people shouldn't hold heaven/hell over people's heads and use it as a beating stick. I have seen that a lot in my life. Way too much, in fact.
We know that the Jews believed in an extensive afterlife doctrine by studying the Midrash, the Mishnah, the Zohar, and other rabbinical writings. Their commentary on Gilgul Ha Neshamot (transmigration/reincarnation) is just one example.
We know that the Jews believed in an extensive afterlife doctrine by studying the Midrash, the Mishnah, the Zohar, and other rabbinical writings. Their commentary on Gilgul Ha Neshamot (transmigration/reincarnation) is just one example.
Well, I'll let NSF argue his own points on that. The bottom line is the afterlife is a belief, not a fact.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
We know that the Jews believed in an extensive afterlife doctrine by studying the Midrash, the Mishnah, the Zohar, and other rabbinical writings. Their commentary on Gilgul Ha Neshamot (transmigration/reincarnation) is just one example.
Aquila, but you know as well as I do, the Afterlife is not an Old Testament Doctrine like today. They talked about it, mention it, debate it, (outside of Scripture and the Torah) but no where can you find Eternal Damnation/Torture in any Jewish teachings, and Gehenna was considered a 12 month punishment for evildoers, (for the Jews who believe in an Afterlife), not burning in fire and brimstone forever.
You also cannot find Heaven as a place of streets of gold, walls of jasper, mansions, etc. These are New Testament teachings that the Jews do not uphold, and we all know, the Jews do not accept the New Testament as sacred or holy Doctrine.
The continuity of the New and Old Testaments is very poor, and are clearly worlds apart from modern Christianity and the teachings we deem as truth. Men put them together, not G-d, and we must see the difference if we are to make honest conclusions about our Religion/Faith, especially regarding the Afterlife.
You make some really good points, but still, some things are provable. The afterlife is not one of them. That's what NFS is trying to say.
The afterlife is not DISPROVABLE and as for it being provable, thats a matter of opinion and once again, its up to individual choice.
My problem with this thread is being told that I "can't" answer a question when I most certainly can. I could be wrong but I can answer. You may not accept my answer and thats your choice.
Anyone that truly believes in the afterlife is going to share those beliefs. Thats just a given.
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"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
The afterlife is not DISPROVABLE and as for it being provable, thats a matter of opinion and once again, its up to individual choice.
Okay, first of all, I believe there is a heaven and an afterlife. But! You can't disprove a lot of things. For example, if I told you there was a giant blue elephant in your living room, you could say "No there isn't, I don't see one", and I could say it's invisible. And you could say "But I can't feel it" and I could say "it's a ghost" etc. The bottom line is you can't disprove there is a giant blue elephant in your living room and if I were manipulative and you were easily swayed, I could get you to tip-toe when it's "sleeping" and not make noise for fear you would wake it, etc. This is the scary part about things that are not provable. We need to take care that we do not allow people to manipulate us with things that are not provable just because they may be in a position of authority or a position to sway us.
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My problem with this thread is being told that I "can't" answer a question when I most certainly can. I could be wrong but I can answer. You may not accept my answer and thats your choice.
I agree, you can certainly answer whatever you want and I won't say you can't say it.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
Okay, first of all, I believe there is a heaven and an afterlife. But! You can't disprove a lot of things. For example, if I told you there was a giant blue elephant in your living room, you could say "No there isn't, I don't see one", and I could say it's invisible. And you could say "But I can't feel it" and I could say "it's a ghost" etc. The bottom line is you can't disprove there is a giant blue elephant in your living room and if I were manipulative and you were easily swayed, I could get you to tip-toe when it's "sleeping" and not make noise for fear you would wake it, etc. This is the scary part about things that are not provable. We need to take care that we do not allow people to manipulate us with things that are not provable just because they may be in a position of authority or a position to sway us.
I agree, you can certainly answer whatever you want and I won't say you can't say it.
The afterlife is provable so there is nothing scary about it. There are certainly questions regarding the details but there is just as much "proof" for the afterlife as there is for the law of gravity.
I agree, we do need to take care that we do not allow people to manipulate us. Thats why we must study things for ourselves, pray to God for ourselves, come to our own conclusions, not just take someone's word for it, no matter what their position or title, etc.
And you have fun with that giant blue elephant. Post a picture.
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"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
The afterlife is provable so there is nothing scary about it. There are certainly questions regarding the details but there is just as much "proof" for the afterlife as there is for the law of gravity.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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