You Can Fake It All

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

The litmus tests state that Christians will do or be x, but they don't state that everyone who does x is a Christian.

They are presented that way. By THIS shall ALL men KNOW... The sheep were those who did the things listed. The goats were those who did not.

But sure, this must be another one of those scriptures that don't mean what they say, exactly.

Nor are those statements foolproof, because people can do good things in the name of God and be doing them for their own benefit rather than for Him--or the people they are serving.

That was my point, yes.

>>>The items on my dining room table are in my dining room, but not everything in my dining room is on the table. The reverse doesn't always apply.

Further, those guidelines were given as an assessment tool for those who claim to be Christians. They weren't intended as a measurement for sinners to see if they really qualify as Christians by their good works.

And I didn't say they were.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Timmy

They are presented that way. By THIS shall ALL men KNOW... The sheep were those who did the things listed. The goats were those who did not.

But sure, this must be another one of those scriptures that don't mean what they say, exactly.

Those statements were directed toward Christians. It was a filter meant to be applied to Christians--and mostly to oneself.

That was my point, yes.


And I didn't say they were.

Yes, and I included in my original post that the statements weren't foolproof, which is why we weren't intended to be the ones doing the separating. (A concept reinforced by Jesus' parable about the tares and wheat.)

You implied that it could be applied to non-Christians with these comments:

Originally Posted by Timmy

...And we all know it works, too! Nobody but true followers of Christ would love each other.

And then there is the whole sheep and goats thing. Everyone who feeds the hungry, gives drink to the thirsty, takes in strangers, etc. is in. And again, nobody but Christians do that. Obviously.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Those statements were directed toward Christians. It was a filter meant to be applied to Christians--and mostly to oneself.



Yes, and I included in my original post that the statements weren't foolproof, which is why we weren't intended to be the ones doing the separating. (A concept reinforced by Jesus' parable about the tares and wheat.)

You implied that it could be applied to non-Christians with these comments:

So they're not actually true statements. We are in agreement, then.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Timmy

So they're not actually true statements. We are in agreement, then.

No, of course we are not in agreement that the statements are false or lies.

You want to take this:

"Let me give you a new command:Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another. This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples––when they see the love you have for each other."

...and infer that if someone loves others they must be determined to be disciples of Christ or else the statement is false.

Am I understanding your intent correctly?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

No, of course we are not in agreement that the statements are false or lies.

You want to take this:

"Let me give you a new command:Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another. This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples––when they see the love you have for each other."

...and infer that if someone loves others they must be determined to be disciples of Christ or else the statement is false.

Am I understanding your intent correctly?

S it's true, in your view, that all men will know Christians when they see them because they love each other?

Yes, I know who the audience was. Believers. So? Is what Jesus told them actually true or not?

I say no. You have actually said, in effect, no, also. Now weasel out of it.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Timmy

S it's true, in your view, that all men will know Christians when they see them because they love each other?

Yes, I know who the audience was. Believers. So? Is what Jesus told them actually true or not?

I say no. You have actually said, in effect, no, also. Now weasel out of it.

See, when you say things like "weasel out of it", I'm disinclined to even have a discussion with you. You're implying that I'm being disingenuous because I don't want to admit that something in the Bible is false and let this go to Timmy for the win.

Yes, I believe what Jesus said was true. He said that we are to love one another, and by that act, people will know that we are Christians. Is that the ONLY thing that matters, and did Jesus say it was the ONLY thing that matters? No, and no. He also said elsewhere that if you deny that "I am He" you will die in your sins. So obviously there's more to Christianity than simply loving other people. You also have to have faith in God.

This thread is about fakes, and you can fake love, so obviously there are people who can fake Christianity because they can fake loving others and even loving God. Hence the problem of the tares and wheat, because some things only God can sort out. We're limited.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

See, when you say things like "weasel out of it", I'm disinclined to even have a discussion with you. You're implying that I'm being disingenuous because I don't want to admit that something in the Bible is false and let this go to Timmy for the win.

Yes, I believe what Jesus said was true. He said that we are to love one another, and by that act, people will know that we are Christians. Is that the ONLY thing that matters, and did Jesus say it was the ONLY thing that matters? No, and no. He also said elsewhere that if you deny that "I am He" you will die in your sins. So obviously there's more to Christianity than simply loving other people. You also have to have faith in God.

This thread is about fakes, and you can fake love, so obviously there are people who can fake Christianity because they can fake loving others and even loving God. Hence the problem of the tares and wheat, because some things only God can sort out. We're limited.

"Nor are those statements foolproof . . . " Agreed. So I guess what we don't agree on is what those statements mean. I think "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" means "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." Not sure anymore what you think it means.