Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully

[Abiding Now]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The key word as Bro. Epley has pointed out is born AGAIN. Baptist and most trinitarians incorrectly teach that the water was from your natural birth, but Jesus said AGAIN. Water and spirit at first birth and water and Spirit at second verse.

[obriencp]

you guys are so predictable. Just because I don't think John 3:5 is referring to water baptism doesn't mean i don't believe in water baptism in Jesus' name. IMO, John 3:6 clarifies that water = fleshly/natural birth, and spirit = spiritual rebirth. Also, using Matthew's writings about baptism and what the Eunich said (luke's writings) to clarify what John meant by "water" isn't proper. When Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, did he use the word "baptism" or "baptized?" He used the word "water."

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The subject is being BORN AGAIN! If he hadn't be born first the discussion would not have taken place. Natural birth is water and spirit thus the spiritual birth is water & Spirit. See how easy that was? Glad I could be a help.
Anyone doing a casual reading in Acts can see the importance of being baptized in water. It as done immediately after someone believed.
Before Jesus taught or performed the first miracle He was baptized.
The scribes rejected the counsel of God not being baptized.
Paul said baptism puts us into Christ.
Peter said baptism saves us.
Baptism is FOR the remission of sins.
Baptism washes sins away.
Baptism was commanded.
ALL OT sacrifices and services included water.
The Spirit of God was resting on the waters in Gen.1:2
Anyone who didn't wash in water died trying to enter into the tabernacle.
Have you ever noticed all the miracles in scripture that includes water?
Minimize water in the plan at your on eternal peril.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Just locate "water" and "spirit" in the first gospel message ever preached and you will understand the new birth Jesus spoke of.

Here it comes.

37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-38

Its not that hard. Did Peter and the apostles tell the crowd what they must do to be born again?

The doctrine of Christ's apostles is pure and holy and true.

The pitiful evangelical distortion is destroyed wonderfully by it.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The key word as Bro. Epley has pointed out is born AGAIN. Baptist and most trinitarians incorrectly teach that the water was from your natural birth, but Jesus said AGAIN. Water and spirit at first birth and water and Spirit at second verse.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus did say we have to be born "again" in v3. Born again = 2 births.

Notice in v5 he says "born" without the word "again." Born of water (first birth, single element of water) and of the spirit (second birth, second element of spirit). v5 does not say "...born again" (two births) of water (first element) and of the spirit (second element). If verse 5 said born "again" of... then i could see drawing both elements at both births. John is using the element of water for natural (first) birth and spirit element for spirit (second birth) rebirth. Jesus says born of water and of the spirit, not reborn of water and spirit.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Jesus did say we have to be born "again" in v3. Born again = 2 births.

Notice in v5 he says "born" without the word "again." Born of water (first birth, single element of water) and of the spirit (second birth, second element of spirit). v5 does not say "...born again" (two births) of water (first element) and of the spirit (second element). If verse 5 said born "again" of... then i could see drawing both elements at both births. John is using the element of water for natural (first) birth and spirit element for spirit (second birth) rebirth. Jesus says born of water and of the spirit, not reborn of water and spirit.

Jesus didn't need to repeat water and Spirit, water and Spirit, water and Spirit or again, again, again. Nicodemus was a smart guy.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Jesus didn't need to repeat water and Spirit, water and Spirit, water and Spirit or again, again, again. Nicodemus was a smart guy.

[Reader]

Actually Jesus was surprised he wasn't smart as he should have been:

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

[obriencp]

you guys are missing what I'm saying.

interesting enough Jesus mentioned spirit, spirit, spirit...

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by obriencp

you guys are missing what I'm saying.

interesting enough Jesus mentioned spirit, spirit, spirit...

Ain't no spirit without water in any birth you do know that eh?