Social drinking?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Sean, while some may say wine to mean both wine or grape juice, you can't ignore the fact that people at a wedding would not be drinking grape juice. Paul wouldn't have prescribed Timothy grape juice for his stomach ailments. Unless the grape juice became fermented into wine, it wasn't something that would keep for any length of time, so the preservation process of preserving the grape juice/wine would inevitably result in an alcoholic beverage for the sake of preservation.

To try to use this reasoning to prove your point really takes you to a dead end, imo. Rather it would be better to assume that the wine they drank was preserved for longer periods of time because of the alcohol content, yet no doubt mixed with water, and probably not as strong as the wine drank today.

So, do you think Jesus turning the water into wine, offered rotten, fermented juice to the guests? I wonder what percentage of alcohol it was Jesus made when he made his moonshine?...LOL

It was just good ol fresh grape juice, like delicious fruit punch at a Christian wedding these days.....Jesus would NEVER cause folks to be drunkards, it is against the very passages in the N.T. He and the Apostles spoke about incessantly.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Sean

So, do you think Jesus turning the water into wine, offered rotten, fermented juice to the guests? I wonder what percentage of alcohol it was Jesus made when he made his moonshine?...LOL

It was just good ol fresh grape juice, like delicious fruit punch at a Christian wedding these days.....Jesus would NEVER cause folks to be drunkards, it is against the very passages in the N.T. He and the Apostles spoke about incessantly.

The words of the ruler of the feast tells us a lot.

When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine
"And said to him, Every man at the beginning does set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but you have kept the good wine until now"

If the wine was grape juice, how could people tell the difference between good wine and the worse wine?

Grape juice does not make people drunk.

The words of the ruler clearly indicate that Jesus created the "good wine"
and also clearly indicate that this "good wine" made people drunk.

it is nonsense to say that it was grape juice for the context of the speech reveals what kind of wine Jesus made.
I have yet to see people get drunk on fruit punch.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The words of the ruler of the feast tells us a lot.

When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine
"And said to him, Every man at the beginning does set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but you have kept the good wine until now"

If the wine was grape juice, how could people tell the difference between good wine and the worse wine?

Grape juice does not make people drunk.

The words of the ruler clearly indicate that Jesus created the "good wine"
and also clearly indicate that this "good wine" made people drunk.

it is nonsense to say that it was grape juice for the context of the speech reveals what kind of wine Jesus made.
I have yet to see people get drunk on fruit punch.

It's important to note that "drunkenness" was frowned upon by ancient society, especially at a wedding. Someone who became "drunk" would most likely be escorted out of the celebration. However, it was a wedding! They most likely continued to not only drink, but eat and eat and eat throughout the evening. It wasn't a drunken revelry. It was a customary Middle Eastern wedding party.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The words of the ruler of the feast tells us a lot.

When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine
"And said to him, Every man at the beginning does set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but you have kept the good wine until now"

If the wine was grape juice, how could people tell the difference between good wine and the worse wine?

Grape juice does not make people drunk.

The words of the ruler clearly indicate that Jesus created the "good wine"
and also clearly indicate that this "good wine" made people drunk.

it is nonsense to say that it was grape juice for the context of the speech reveals what kind of wine Jesus made.
I have yet to see people get drunk on fruit punch.

The three words "have well drunk" in your King James Bibles is translated from one Greek word μεθύω which literally means intoxicated.

Jesus first miracle was to create fermented wine from water.

So, for the last 2,000 years when anyone who knew the Greek came across μεθύω they immediately would understand what the writer was trying to say.

In the Latin Vulgate translates the Greek word μεθύω to the Latin word inebriati from where we get the English word "inebriate".

This debate is over.