Left Behind nonsense Movie

FlamingZword · #1 10-08-2014, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is the event called "Rapture"

1Th 4:15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

There is no word "rapture" here
The only term used here is the one I use "the coming of the Lord"

There is no mention in here anywhere anything about an anti-Christ, a 7 year tribulation or people disappearing. None of the items included in the term "Rapture" are mentioned in here at all.

Praxeas · #2 10-08-2014, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

There is no word "rapture" here
The only term used here is the one I use "the coming of the Lord"

There is no mention in here anywhere anything about an anti-Christ, a 7 year tribulation or people disappearing. None of the items included in the term "Rapture" are mentioned in here at all.

I didn't say there was a word for Rapture there...

I didn't SAY this verse mentions an anti-Christ, a 7 year Tribulation

HOWEVER, since clearly I have to explain it to you

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord

The part in BOLD is the idea behind the word "Rapture".

The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek word used in the above verse as
as rapiemur,from the verb rapio meaning "to catch up" or "take away".

That is where we get, in english, the word Rapture

The Greek word used above is
harpázō; fut. harpásō, aor. pass. hērpásthēn, 2d aor. pass. hērpágēn. To seize upon, spoil, snatch away. In Class. Gr., the fut. pass. harpázomai is used more often than in the NT. Literally, to seize upon with force, to rob; differing from kléptō (G2813), to steal secretly. It denotes an open act of violence in contrast to cunning and secret stealing. Though generally harpázō denotes robbery of another's property, it is not exclusively used thus, but sometimes used generally meaning forcibly to seize upon, snatch away, or take to oneself (Mat_13:19; Joh_6:15; Joh_10:12, Joh_10:28-29; Act_23:10; Jud_1:23). Especially used of the rapture (Act_8:39; 2Co_12:2, 2Co_12:4; 1Th_4:17; Rev_12:5); to use force against one (Mat_11:12).

Robertson says "Shall be caught up (harpagēsometha). Second future passive indicative of harpazō, old verb to seize, to carry off like Latin rapio."

FlamingZword · #3 10-09-2014, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I didn't say there was a word for Rapture there...

I didn't SAY this verse mentions an anti-Christ, a 7 year Tribulation

HOWEVER, since clearly I have to explain it to you

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord

The part in BOLD is the idea behind the word "Rapture".

The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek word used in the above verse as
as rapiemur,from the verb rapio meaning "to catch up" or "take away".

That is where we get, in english, the word Rapture

The Greek word used above is
harpázō; fut. harpásō, aor. pass. hērpásthēn, 2d aor. pass. hērpágēn. To seize upon, spoil, snatch away. In Class. Gr., the fut. pass. harpázomai is used more often than in the NT. Literally, to seize upon with force, to rob; differing from kléptō (G2813), to steal secretly. It denotes an open act of violence in contrast to cunning and secret stealing. Though generally harpázō denotes robbery of another's property, it is not exclusively used thus, but sometimes used generally meaning forcibly to seize upon, snatch away, or take to oneself (Mat_13:19; Joh_6:15; Joh_10:12, Joh_10:28-29; Act_23:10; Jud_1:23). Especially used of the rapture (Act_8:39; 2Co_12:2, 2Co_12:4; 1Th_4:17; Rev_12:5); to use force against one (Mat_11:12).

Robertson says "Shall be caught up (harpagēsometha). Second future passive indicative of harpazō, old verb to seize, to carry off like Latin rapio."

Me thinks you need to go back two verses take a notice that in 1Th 4:15 it says "the coming of the Lord" there is no need to add the word rapture in anywhere here.

There are plenty of places where it says "coming of the Lord" not one single place in the scriptures where it says the "rapture".

The word "rapture" is loaded with all kinds of non-biblical concepts.

Praxeas · #4 10-09-2014, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Me thinks you need to go back two verses take a notice that in 1Th 4:15 it says "the coming of the Lord" there is no need to add the word rapture in anywhere here.

Once again I did NOT add a word there nor did I say the word Rapture was there

That is TWICE you did that. Next time I have to call a spade a spade so please don't.

Quote:

There are plenty of places where it says "coming of the Lord" not one single place in the scriptures where it says the "rapture".

The word "rapture" is loaded with all kinds of non-biblical concepts.

You didn't deal honestly with a single thing I posted. All you did was obfuscate some lie that I said the word rapture was there.

I challenge you to actually deal with what I have said so far rather than dealing with strawman arguments

One more thing, the theme is the resurrection of the dead. You'll notice that so far all you have done is partially quote one verse and then pontificate about the word rapture rather than deal with what I have posted and that I have dealt with not just one out of context verse

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you ignorant, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, that you be not grieved, even as others who have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
"fallen asleep" is an idiom for the dead

Paul specifically says He will bring WITH Him those that have died.. WITH HIM.

THEN Paul addresses those still alive when this event happens

1Th 4:15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.

Then Paul explains what will happen

1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.

the Lord will descend and then the dead will rise FIRST..that word FIRST implies another thing will happen next

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Then Paul explains those still alive and who remain will be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds...IN THE CLOUDS to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. IN THE AIR

That is what the word "rapture" refers to. Nothing more and nothing less. The fact you try to attach other things to it is a strawman argument. The fact you try portray my responses as saying the word rapture was used in the bible is another strawman argument..a dishonest one

Please stop doing that

Praxeas · #5 10-09-2014, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is the event called "Rapture"

1Th 4:15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

There is no word "rapture" here
The only term used here is the one I use "the coming of the Lord"

There is no mention in here anywhere anything about an anti-Christ, a 7 year tribulation or people disappearing. None of the items included in the term "Rapture" are mentioned in here at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I didn't say there was a word for Rapture there...

I didn't SAY this verse mentions an anti-Christ, a 7 year Tribulation

HOWEVER, since clearly I have to explain it to you

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord

The part in BOLD is the idea behind the word "Rapture".

The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek word used in the above verse as
as rapiemur,from the verb rapio meaning "to catch up" or "take away".

That is where we get, in english, the word Rapture

The Greek word used above is
harpázō; fut. harpásō, aor. pass. hērpásthēn, 2d aor. pass. hērpágēn. To seize upon, spoil, snatch away. In Class. Gr., the fut. pass. harpázomai is used more often than in the NT. Literally, to seize upon with force, to rob; differing from kléptō (G2813), to steal secretly. It denotes an open act of violence in contrast to cunning and secret stealing. Though generally harpázō denotes robbery of another's property, it is not exclusively used thus, but sometimes used generally meaning forcibly to seize upon, snatch away, or take to oneself (Mat_13:19; Joh_6:15; Joh_10:12, Joh_10:28-29; Act_23:10; Jud_1:23). Especially used of the rapture (Act_8:39; 2Co_12:2, 2Co_12:4; 1Th_4:17; Rev_12:5); to use force against one (Mat_11:12).

Robertson says "Shall be caught up (harpagēsometha). Second future passive indicative of harpazō, old verb to seize, to carry off like Latin rapio."

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Me thinks you need to go back two verses take a notice that in 1Th 4:15 it says "the coming of the Lord" there is no need to add the word rapture in anywhere here.

There are plenty of places where it says "coming of the Lord" not one single place in the scriptures where it says the "rapture".

The word "rapture" is loaded with all kinds of non-biblical concepts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Once again I did NOT add a word there nor did I say the word Rapture was there

That is TWICE you did that. Next time I have to call a spade a spade so please don't.

You didn't deal honestly with a single thing I posted. All you did was obfuscate some lie that I said the word rapture was there.

I challenge you to actually deal with what I have said so far rather than dealing with strawman arguments

One more thing, the theme is the resurrection of the dead. You'll notice that so far all you have done is partially quote one verse and then pontificate about the word rapture rather than deal with what I have posted and that I have dealt with not just one out of context verse

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you ignorant, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, that you be not grieved, even as others who have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
"fallen asleep" is an idiom for the dead

Paul specifically says He will bring WITH Him those that have died.. WITH HIM.

THEN Paul addresses those still alive when this event happens

1Th 4:15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.

Then Paul explains what will happen

1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.

the Lord will descend and then the dead will rise FIRST..that word FIRST implies another thing will happen next

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Then Paul explains those still alive and who remain will be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds...IN THE CLOUDS to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. IN THE AIR

That is what the word "rapture" refers to. Nothing more and nothing less. The fact you try to attach other things to it is a strawman argument. The fact you try portray my responses as saying the word rapture was used in the bible is another strawman argument..a dishonest one

Please stop doing that

You have a lot of catching up to do. I don't know what your problem is but clearly I never said the word Rapture is in the bible. I said THE IDEA is and then I explained what the word means and what Greek word was used in the text

I would appreciate an honest response next time to my post and actually dealing with what I said rather than pretending I said something I did not

mfblume · #6 10-09-2014, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You have a lot of catching up to do.

You mean, rapturing? lol

Quote:

I don't know what your problem is but clearly I never said the word Rapture is in the bible. I said THE IDEA is and then I explained what the word means and what Greek word was used in the text.

This is correct.. The Latin term for term CAUGHT UP is the root word for rapture.

Praxeas · #7 10-10-2014, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You mean, rapturing? lol

This is correct.. The Latin term for term CAUGHT UP is the root word for rapture.

Good one!

FlamingZword · #8 10-10-2014, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You have a lot of catching up to do. I don't know what your problem is but clearly I never said the word Rapture is in the bible. I said THE IDEA is and then I explained what the word means and what Greek word was used in the text

I would appreciate an honest response next time to my post and actually dealing with what I said rather than pretending I said something I did not

OK I have a lot of catching up to do, but I shall strive to advance a little.

First, there was no intention of calling anyone a liar or that someone was dishonest. I am quite sure you are honest and explain the truth (As you see it)

What I am simply saying is that your understanding is mistaken.
You are interpreting the scriptures quite honestly, but still wrong.
So let us lay aside the issue of lying or dishonesty for your honesty or truthfulness is not in question here, what is in question is your interpretation.

The main problem I see with the term "Rapture" is that the Bible quite often speaks the word "Coming" so I see no need to create a new word when the Bible has already provided one that is quite clear.

The second problem I see with the term "Rapture" is that it denotates a secret rapture, when I believe the second coming will be quite public where every eye shall see him.

The third problem I see with the term "Rapture" is that it teaches a two-stage coming, where Jesus comes for his church and then later on returns with his church. I simply see no reason at all for a 2 stage coming.

So no I do not call you a liar or dishonest, I simply call you mistaken in your understanding of Jesus second coming.