Left Behind nonsense Movie

KeptByTheWord · #1 10-09-2014, 08:38 AM

The resurrection of the dead, and the coming of the Lord are the two biblical terms for the idea of the catching away of the saints, and the transformation from mortal to immortality.

The whole premise behind the "Left Behind" movies is that it will be a secret event, and people will just disappear, and no one will know why, which is totally false.

Read this passage here - it couldn't be plainer, in my opinion:

Matt. 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After the days of tribulation, then the sign of the Son of man shall appear, and ALL the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they SHALL SEE Jesus, who shall send his angels with the GREAT SOUND of a trumpet to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth.

There is nothing in the above passage that suggests a silent, stealthy, mysterious event. EVERYONE on earth will know what is happening. There will be no doubt in anyone's mind what has taken place.

mfblume · #2 10-09-2014, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The resurrection of the dead, and the coming of the Lord are the two biblical terms for the idea of the catching away of the saints, and the transformation from mortal to immortality.

The whole premise behind the "Left Behind" movies is that it will be a secret event, and people will just disappear, and no one will know why, which is totally false.

Read this passage here - it couldn't be plainer, in my opinion:

Matt. 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After the days of tribulation, then the sign of the Son of man shall appear, and ALL the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they SHALL SEE Jesus, who shall send his angels with the GREAT SOUND of a trumpet to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth.

There is nothing in the above passage that suggests a silent, stealthy, mysterious event. EVERYONE on earth will know what is happening. There will be no doubt in anyone's mind what has taken place.

The rapture is not in Matt 24. It's in John 5, 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4.

KeptByTheWord · #3 10-09-2014, 09:26 AM

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Originally Posted by Originalist

We believe in the rapture. We just believe it happens after the Tribulation.

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Originally Posted by mfblume

The rapture is not in Matt 24. It's in John 5, 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4.

Ok... then when was the sign of the son of Man in the sky? When have ALL the tribes of the earth mourned? When has EVERYONE seen the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and glory? When have the angels sounded a trumpet and gathered all the elect together?

mfblume · #4 10-09-2014, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Ok... then when was the sign of the son of Man in the sky?

Notice the terminology. It is HEAVEN, not the sky. We cannot see into heaven. It was A "SIGN" of Jesus in Heaven. If it was the Son of man Himself there would be no mention of a SIGN for HIM.

If we read Daniel 7, we read of the son of man IN CLOUDS IN HEAVEN, but He went to the throne, not the earth. And the SIGN OF THAT -- the sign of Him having gone to the throne -- were events that occurred on earth. the SIGN the disciples asked about in verse 3. And that SIGN of what they asked about is the same SIGN of the temple destruction in Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7. Note reference to THESE THINGS in those verses and read before them to see what THESE THINGS refer to. they sought a sign of Jesus coming in destruction!

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When have ALL the tribes of the earth mourned?

EARTH is LAND in Greek. TRIBES OF THE LAND. Isreal's tribes. Do you not think they mourned when the capital city and temple were razed to the ground?

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When has EVERYONE seen the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and glory?

He came TO THE THRONE as Daniel 7 attests. THE SIGN OF THAT presence in clouds in heaven was the things he said would occur in Jerusalem.

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When have the angels sounded a trumpet and gathered all the elect together?

You have to understand what the gathering means to know that, and that is understood by what we read using the same terms in Matt 23:37. What did he mean there? Also, compare Matt 23:36, and consider who he meant, with Matt 24:34.

Matthew 24:34 GNB Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

KeptByTheWord · #5 10-09-2014, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Notice the terminology. It is HEAVEN, not the sky. We cannot see into heaven. It was A "SIGN" of Jesus in Heaven. If it was the Son of man Himself there would be no mention of a SIGN for HIM.

If we read Daniel 7, we read of the son of man IN CLOUDS IN HEAVEN, but He went to the throne, not the earth. And the SIGN OF THAT -- the sign of Him having gone to the throne -- were events that occurred on earth. the SIGN the disciples asked about in verse 3. And that SIGN of what they asked about is the same SIGN of the temple destruction in Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7. Note reference to THESE THINGS in those verses and read before them to see what THESE THINGS refer to. they sought a sign of Jesus coming in destruction!

I don't quite follow how you believe the sign of the son of man in heaven was the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem - that's a far stretch!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

EARTH is LAND in Greek. TRIBES OF THE LAND. Isreal's tribes. Do you not think they mourned when the capital city and temple were razed to the ground?

Trying to assign the tribes of Israel to that portion of scripture is a stretch as well!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

He came TO THE THRONE as Daniel 7 attests. THE SIGN OF THAT presence in clouds in heaven was the things he said would occur in Jerusalem.

You have to understand what the gathering means to know that, and that is understood by what we read using the same terms in Matt 23:37. What did he mean there? Also, compare Matt 23:36, and consider who he meant, with Matt 24:34.

Matthew 24:34 GNB Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.

Basically, what you've done here is turned the entire passage of Matt 24 into a parable, symbolic spiritual passage, without acknowledging that there is a literal interpretation as well. I do believe part of the passage is referring to the a.d. 70 Jewish destruction, however.... I don't believe that was all that Jesus was referencing in that chapter.... You are grasping at straws and extra meanings of words to try and insert your view there.

Sean did a great job of explaining in another thread that this chapter involves Jesus answering three questions the disciples had asked. Jesus answered all three of those questions in the passage of Matt. 24:3 (1. When shall these things be? 2. What shall be the sign of thy coming? 3. What shall be the end of the world?) in that chapter, which we know cannot only hold the answer for the ad 70 destruction of the temple, because here we are 2000 years later, and the world has not ended.

mfblume · #6 10-09-2014, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I don't quite follow how you believe the sign of the son of man in heaven was the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem - that's a far stretch!

Read Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7 and notice what THE SIGN is described as there.

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Trying to assign the tribes of Israel to that portion of scripture is a stretch as well!

It is what the Greek allows for. Check the Greek term out for yourself.

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Basically, what you've done here is turned the entire passage of Matt 24 into a parable, symbolic spiritual passage, without acknowledging that there is a literal interpretation as well.

Incorrect. I took it at what is consistent in the context of the bible's writings alone. I showed the same words in the same context of issues from Matt 23 into 24 in regards to GATHER TOGETHER. I took the additional clarification of Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7 to show what the sign was. I did not twist anything but read the entire context one day and noticed that it is not a cessation of AD70 language at all. Unless a person compares it to Mark 13 and Luke 21 one would miss the fact that the SIGN they looked for was destruction of the temple. See for yourself.

There are not three questions as such. To say there are is to deny the correlation with Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7. The questions are synonymous. They are repeating the same thing in varying terms, just like the rest of the bible does in many instances.

The end of the WORLD in Matthew 24 is not the earth, BUT THE END OF THE AGE. AION, from which we get EON in English. We have to research the Greek in this. And those who don't miss many integral points.

Matthew 24:3 ISV While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us, when will these things take place, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

I ask you to read this carefully:

Everyone is familiar with the SYNOPTIC GOSPELS... Matthew, Mark and Luke. They carry for the the same stories, for the most part, during Jesus' time on earth, and simply rephrase the stories from how they personally knew about it and the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 all relate the same conversation Jesus had with the disciples about the coming of the Lord.

Notice Matthew 24 says the "SIGN" the disciples asked about is the "coming" of the Lord and the end of the "age", whereas both Mark and Luke say the "SIGN" in the same conversation was of the destruction of the temple.

Mat 24:2-3 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Luke 21:6-7 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (7) And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Mark 13:2-4 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, (4) Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

It’s the same conversation! Matthew records the same thought as Mark and Luke did, using different words. The manner in which we understand what the sign of the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24:3 is, is by realizing that same sign is noted in Luke as the sign when "these things" shall come to pass. What things? The stones of the temple being overthrown!

This allows scripture to interpret itself.

Praxeas · #7 10-09-2014, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Notice the terminology. It is HEAVEN, not the sky. We cannot see into heaven. It was A "SIGN" of Jesus in Heaven. If it was the Son of man Himself there would be no mention of a SIGN for HIM.

The Greek word can actually mean Sky.

Also how would all tribes mourn if they could not see that sign? Why would those in heaven need a sign?

mfblume · #8 10-09-2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The Greek word can actually mean Sky.

Also how would all tribes mourn if they could not see that sign? Why would those in heaven need a sign?

That's not what I said. It is not a sign for those in heaven. The sign was on earth. The sign was the same SIGN noted in Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7. Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7 are actually other forms of saying the same thing that Matt 24:3 said.

I said the sign was destruction of the temple and city.

Praxeas · #9 10-10-2014, 12:11 AM

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Originally Posted by mfblume

Notice the terminology. It is HEAVEN, not the sky. We cannot see into heaven. It was A "SIGN" of Jesus in Heaven. .

This is what I was referring to

mfblume · #10 10-10-2014, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is what I was referring to

You misread what I said. Sorry for lack of clarity. It is a SIGN that JESUS IS IN HEAVEN. The Sign is not Jesus. Jesus is not a sign. The sign POINTS TO HIM. The sign tells us about Him. The sign is the destruction of the city and temple, and that signified that Jesus is King in Heaven.