Oh WAKE UP people!!

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by n david

Not sure what this has to do with anything. No one argues what this scripture is saying. Obviously the Lord rules over all.

He is in charge of human government--yes?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Rudy

He is in charge of human government--yes?

I can do this as well.

Ps 47:8
God reigns over the nations, God sits on His holy throne.

Col 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things were created through him and for him.

1 Chron 29:11, 12
Yours, LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor, for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, LORD, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all. Wealth and honor come from you; you are the ruler of all things. In your hands are strength and power to exalt and give strength to all

We can write all the scriptures about God being above all, in control of all; that He alone both sets up and brings down governments.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Christians should be involved in civil government. Nothing. So yes, to answer the same question you ask over and over, yes God is in control.

No one is arguing that.

Here's a question for you: Do you believe God to be so limited and small that He cannot be in control if a Christian becomes involved in civil government? Does God suddenly lose power?

Please show me a scripture which says Christians should not be involved in civil government, not these others about God ruling above all.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Originalist

We do not have to bow to a lawless President and we do not have to obey lawless judges. But if you think any of this can be resolved without civil disobedience you are dreaming. These judges are going to have to be scared off the bench. They are going to have to see angry mobs surrounding their offices and homes. They are going to have to see the fury of the American people starring them right in the eye. NO I am NOT even remotely hinting and doing what Timothy McVeigh did. I'm talking about doing what our colonial ancestors did.

Originally Posted by n david

Please show me a scripture which says Christians should not be involved in civil government, not these others about God ruling above all.

I'd say getting involved in government is pretty different from civil disobedience. As per civil disobedience, wouldn't Rom 13 be against that?

Rom 13 (context: Roman Government)
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

[n david]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I'd say getting involved in government is pretty different from civil disobedience. As per civil disobedience, wouldn't Rom 13 be against that?

I agree. I apologize for muddling the subject here.

While I'm 100% for Christians being involved in civil government; I do not believe we should promote anarchy or insurrection. Get informed. Get organized. Get elected.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by n david

I agree. I apologize for muddling the subject here.

While I'm 100% for Christians being involved in civil government; I do not believe we should promote anarchy or insurrection. Get informed. Get organized. Get elected.

Was it wrong in 1776? And who is promoting anarchy and insurrection? The federal government is guilty of both as they defy the God given authority Romans 13 speaks of. Opposing that does not make us guilty of the same.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by n david

I can do this as well.

Ps 47:8
God reigns over the nations, God sits on His holy throne.

Col 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things were created through him and for him.

1 Chron 29:11, 12
Yours, LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor, for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, LORD, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all. Wealth and honor come from you; you are the ruler of all things. In your hands are strength and power to exalt and give strength to all

We can write all the scriptures about God being above all, in control of all; that He alone both sets up and brings down governments.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Christians should be involved in civil government. Nothing. So yes, to answer the same question you ask over and over, yes God is in control.

No one is arguing that.

Here's a question for you: Do you believe God to be so limited and small that He cannot be in control if a Christian becomes involved in civil government? Does God suddenly lose power?

Please show me a scripture which says Christians should not be involved in civil government, not these others about God ruling above all.

Secular government tends to be adversarial.

To me nothing wrong in giving advice to those in leadership. Would not say it would be sin to be in civil government either.

If God appoints authority, sets them up or down. Rules in the kingdom of men etc. Are we to oust those who are not lining up to our views and standards?

Do you believe God is so limited and small that he cannot remove leadership in civil government without our help?

Remember the king who ate grass for awhile?

Did God make a mistake giving power to Obama?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Secular government tends to be adversarial.

To me nothing wrong in giving advice to those in leadership. Would not say it would be sin to be in civil government either.

If God appoints authority, sets them up or down. Rules in the kingdom of men etc. Are we to oust those who are not lining up to our views and standards?

Do you believe God is so limited and small that he cannot remove leadership in civil government without our help?

Remember the king who ate grass for awhile?

Did God make a mistake giving power to Obama?

Is the bible actually teaching that every leader from dog catcher to President is personally chosen by God? What about the form of government a nation has? Is that also chosen by God? If so, then Obama is in defiance of the form of government that God chose for America and needs to be stopped.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Is the bible actually teaching that every leader from dog catcher to President is personally chosen by God? What about the form of government a nation has? Is that also chosen by God? If so, then Obama is in defiance of the form of government that God chose for America and needs to be stopped.

Stopped by who?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Stopped by who?

So you believe that when one man defies the Law (Constitution) that God set up, that unless God personally reaches down and stops him, that we have no recourse. Respectfully, that is hyper-pacifism and I do not see it taught in scripture.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Originalist

So you believe that when one man defies the Law (Constitution) that God set up, that unless God personally reaches down and stops him, that we have no recourse. Respectfully, that is hyper-pacifism and I do not see it taught in scripture.

What we are talking about here is does God rule in the kingdom of men or not? Did he harden Pharaoh"s heart? Did he make a king eat grass. God gave Obama his authority. Is it the church that decides Obama's fate?

Check this out---> An angel respects Satan's position.

Jude 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.


This country has been killing children legally since 1973. Has the republican's stop it? Could God have soften the hearts of the justices who ruled in favor of roe vs wade?

We can peacefully inform but to call for their removal is flirting with the spirit of Korah imo.

Our only instruction is to pray for them imo.