born of water

[good samaritan]

I am a little late getting into this thread, but it sounds like people are trying to make baptism symbolize the death and burial. repentance is death and baptism is burial(separate but essential). You can have a death without a burial and still have a resurrection(Holy Ghost infilling) , but all of this is symbolic and not literal. We must be baptized in Jesus name because it is the commandment of God's word. The death and burial are not literal in Romans 6 but symbolic. Repentance isn't a one time event either we must die(repent) daily.

If we literally died to the flesh the initial time we first repented then we would no longer struggle in the flesh, but we struggle as long as we live on this earth. We must crucify our flesh every day by refusing to indulge in the sinful lust thereof.

PS Jesus was baptized and wouldn't be denied it by John even when he had no sin to be baptized for.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We must be baptized in Jesus name because it is the commandment of God's word.

...or, what? {Actually, i agree with you, but i bet we differ @ the definition of this "baptism," by which i assume you mean dunking in water.}

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Reading a bit into that verse eh?

Am I reading too much into anything? Nope. I only read what I am offered to read.

[Hesetmefree238]

Originally Posted by Sean

Acts 10 "destroys" Romans 6???


When they were not baptized, they were still dead in their trespasses and sins, that is why they were baptized that very day.

If you agree that baptism is a burial,Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death.....

then you believe that the souls in the N.T. that received the Spirit, prior to baptism were BURIED ALIVE!!!


Not cool bro...

The Spirit is Life. Paul said, the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. The Spirit is the life of Christ. I believe it's in error to say they were still dead in their sins after they had been filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe they had to be baptized, but I don't agree with your interpretation of saying they were still spiritually dead once they had received the Holy Spirit.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shazeep

...or, what? {Actually, i agree with you, but i bet we differ @ the definition of this "baptism," by which i assume you mean dunking in water.}

If you are not baptized by immersion in the name of Jesus you are disobedient to the word of God and the "or what" is between you and God.

The real question is why not? why not be obedient. I assume already that you love the Lord so why not be obedient?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm, i don't know about all those; but i do know that many will cry "Lord, Lord," and many others, "unbaptized," at least by the Christian standard of baptized, will be in the KOG. I am pretty sure we just have poor definitions for the terms nowadays, in the verses that seem to indicate otherwise.For instance, i often hear "born of water" being confused for "baptism," etc.

You just said a mouthful!

Can anyone enter the kingdom and deny the scriptures? That's what you seem to be saying. Or can we enter the kingdom based on our own interpretation of scriptures?

The AOG believes that "born of water" points to the amniotic fluid taht protects the embryo: that one cannot be born of the Spirit, unless they are first born as a human. Is that you?

[good samaritan]

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water:and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"

If baptism is nonessential then why did they do it? People are trying to make the righteous things of God optional. It is one thing for the sinner who is unlearned in the scripture to be disobedient because of ignorance but is a sad thing when those who know the word but compromise to make it more user friendly. Do I know that everyone who is not baptized in Jesus name is going to hell? No I really don't, but from my understanding of scripture they are wrong and they will answer to God just like myself.

Why is it so hard to be baptized(Jesus name). If a person proclaims to be a christian surely they want to follow Him so why not simply obey the scripture literally and not figuratively.

[shazeep]

ok, no arguments there, as long as it is realized that following protocol will not get you saved; and that there is deeper meaning to 'baptism' than we currently afford it. Our "baptism" is now a ceremonial thing, something people do, and then go back to their lives, tra-la. Not what was originally meant to happen.

Originally Posted by thephnxman

You just said a mouthful!

Can anyone enter the kingdom and deny the scriptures? That's what you seem to be saying. Or can we enter the kingdom based on our own interpretation of scriptures?

The AOG believes that "born of water" points to the amniotic fluid taht protects the embryo: that one cannot be born of the Spirit, unless they are first born as a human. Is that you?

yes--and i guess i'm just realizing that this is not a widely held view. And imo, you can only enter the kingdom based upon your own interpretation of Scripture, with the Holy Spirit's help, of course. There is even Scripture for this; to not be letting others interpret Scripture for you. King James included. A lexicon will at least provide a sense of the original.

And so no, one cannot deny Scripture and enter the kingdom, i don't think; but i write because i see many who fulfill Scripture without knowing it, and many who know Scripture without fulfilling it--with the best of intentions. By all means, and especially if it has meaning for you, get baptized in Jesus' Name--and i mean the dunking in actual water part. I pray that in a couple, few, ten (forty, for me ) years, one sees the real meaning of baptism, having learned the symbology; whereas church would have us go into navel-gazing mode. Again, with the best of intentions.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238

The Spirit is Life. Paul said, the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. The Spirit is the life of Christ. I believe it's in error to say they were still dead in their sins after they had been filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe they had to be baptized, but I don't agree with your interpretation of saying they were still spiritually dead once they had received the Holy Spirit.

Did you know, that if someone NEVER gets baptized after receiving the Holy Ghost, and continues in sin, that they are not saved?

Why are they not saved?

They have received the Spirit, Right?

The Spirit alone does not guarantee salvation, it is primarily a tool used by God to cause us to become hungry for spiritual things, like wanting to be baptized and giving us a desire to stop sinning.


That is why the Bible terms WATER BAPTISM for the REMISSION of sins.

Spirit infilling is not for the remission of sins, but to lead a soul to get themselves water baptized for the remission of sins.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, no arguments there, as long as it is realized that following protocol will not get you saved; and that there is deeper meaning to 'baptism' than we currently afford it. Our "baptism" is now a ceremonial thing, something people do, and then go back to their lives, tra-la. Not what was originally meant to happen.
yes--and i guess i'm just realizing that this is not a widely held view. And imo, you can only enter the kingdom based upon your own interpretation of Scripture, with the Holy Spirit's help, of course. There is even Scripture for this; to not be letting others interpret Scripture for you. King James included. A lexicon will at least provide a sense of the original.
And so no, one cannot deny Scripture and enter the kingdom, i don't think; but i write because i see many who fulfill Scripture without knowing it, and many who know Scripture without fulfilling it--with the best of intentions. By all means, and especially if it has meaning for you, get baptized in Jesus' Name--and i mean the dunking in actual water part. I pray that in a couple, few, ten (forty, for me ) years, one sees the real meaning of baptism, having learned the symbology; whereas church would have us go into navel-gazing mode. Again, with the best of intentions.

I hear you. Too often, baptism is preached but the full gospel is not! That is why it becomes essential to
preach the full gospel message.
Jesus said, "...he that believes not is condemned." So a person can be condemned even if one is baptized,
because he believed not! Or we can possibly fulfill all the elements of church tradition and still be lost because
"...he has not believed in the NAME of the only begotten son of God."

There are too many denominations that are not only detracting from the scriptures, but they would also delete
baptism, and even the NAME of Jesus from baptism! Or find a "more convenient" definition for His NAME.

There is only ONE gospel that saves: it is found in the mouth or writings of the Lord Jesus Christ, (Mk. 16:16);
the Apostle Peter, (Acts 2:38); and the Apostle Paul, (I Cor. 15:1-4).

That is the gospel I preach.