born of water

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Originalist

So the repentant sinner invoking Jesus Christ while being baptized won't do, huh? That name only has supernatural power if the the baptizer invokes it over the sinner who is being baptized.
Welcome to the Catholic Church.

Listen to the scripture: "For whosoever calls upon the NAME of the Lord shall be saved." Many who believe
the "Faith Gospel" read that to mean that one is saved upon believing. That's not how it should be understood.

The words "...shall be..." are a promise; even as the words found in Mk. 16:16__"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved."
So what is the Lord saying? "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him
of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? and how shall they preach, except they
be sent?" So are we sent to preach the gospel, that they may hear and believe and call on Him who hears the
prayer of a repentant heart.

Have you not heard? "The effectual prayer of a righteous man avails much." Who was Ananias? A "...disciple in
Damascus..."; perhaps the least of the disciples, who would preach the gospel to the man who was to be regarded as the
greatest among the apostles!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Listen to the scripture: "For whosoever calls upon the NAME of the Lord shall be saved." Many who believe
the "Faith Gospel" read that to mean that one is saved upon believing. That's not how it should be understood.

The words "...shall be..." are a promise; even as the words found in Mk. 16:16__"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved."
So what is the Lord saying? "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him
of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? and how shall they preach, except they
be sent?" So are we sent to preach the gospel, that they may hear and believe and call on Him who hears the
prayer of a repentant heart.

Have you not heard? "The effectual prayer of a righteous man avails much." Who was Ananias? A "...disciple in
Damascus..."; perhaps the least of the disciples, who would preach the gospel to the man who was to be regarded as the
greatest among the apostles!

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

Every organization, like the Catholic Church, has a chain of command. Likewise the Body of Christ. Unlike the other organizations, the ministry is mandated to say "...thus saith the Lord...", and not voice personal opinions.

Calling on the NAME of the Lord at baptism, by the one baptized, is tantamount to baptizing oneself. Nowhere in scripture do we see that; even Saul of Tarsus, when the Lord called him, was sent to a disciple to show him the way.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Calling on the NAME of the Lord at baptism, by the one baptized, is tantamount to baptizing oneself. Nowhere in scripture do we see that; even Saul of Tarsus, when the Lord called him, was sent to a disciple to show him the way.

Very good point!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Every organization, like the Catholic Church, has a chain of command. Likewise the Body of Christ. Unlike the other organizations, the ministry is mandated to say "...thus saith the Lord...", and not voice personal opinions.

Calling on the NAME of the Lord at baptism, by the one baptized, is tantamount to baptizing oneself. Nowhere in scripture do we see that; even Saul of Tarsus, when the Lord called him, was sent to a disciple to show him the way.

How so? They are not physically immersing themselves. The one baptizing them will not immerse them until he hears them calling on the Lord. Sadly your view is typical of the sacerdotal teachings followed by many Apostolics, placing ones salvation in the hands of another instead of in Christ. There simply is no teaching in scripture that says my invoking the name of Jesus over a sinner somehow takes away or forgives their sins. As for "baptizing oneself", I would hope one would do so if they were in a country or situation where nobody was available to baptize them. God would honor so great a faith.