born of water

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee:In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.. 7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up:and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

If originalist is trying to say that the name can be used without the authority I agree. For instance if someone is baptized in the name Jesus Ramirez, that isn't the Jesus we need for salvation. If he is saying that we are given authority without the name that is contrary to the Bible. Peter had more supernatural experience through God than anyone on this earth today, but yet he still vocalized Jesus name here in the scripture.

I think that originalist probably sees the importance of the name. It seems he is trying give a deeper philosophy then is necessary. We should call on his name everyday, but it is up to God where his authority is used. If we don't acknowledge his name we disgrace his person. Have you ever been referred to in a group acquaintances as a he or him when they know your name? To me if it is done repeatedly it is insulting. I have name for a reason so use it when you refer to me.

By using His name when you speak of Him you acknowledge Him. By calling on His name in baptism you are being obedient. Originalist would probably be getting less debate if he would have said the use of the name is in vain if we truly don't know Him and don't experience His work in our lives.The name is important because of who it belongs to.

I can accept much of what you say here.

My biggest beefs are with people who, when trying to cast out a demon, scream "in the name of Jesus!" at the top of their lungs over and over and over like that is somehow going to intimidate the demon into leaving. That's not what constitutes using the authority of his name.

Secondly, concerning Jesus name baptism, people who believe that the blood of Jesus is somehow applied mysteriously to the sinner through the invoking of the name in baptism are in error. I'm not picking on Apostolics here. I know Trinitarians who believe the same thing happens when the sinner invokes (calls on) the name of Lord at repentance.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I can accept much of what you say here.

My biggest beefs are with people who, when trying to cast out a demon, scream "in the name of Jesus!" at the top of their lungs over and over and over like that is somehow going to intimidate the demon into leaving. That's not what constitutes using the authority of his name.

What constitutes using the authority to his name? I only know how to call on the name. I don't how to use the authority because that is up to Him. I have prayed for many things in my life with faith in Jesus and using his name, but God did not do what I asked. I believe in His authority and His will and sometimes it is not going to have the outcome that I want.

You may not be meaning to, but your argument sounds like the name is pointless. People will never know when God is going to move supernaturally, and many who are baptized in Jesus name may not make it to heaven, but that does not change the fact that we should call on his name literally. Just because a man repeatedly yells out the name of Jesus and nothing is evident who are we to say that it was in vain.(Many times that is done out of desperation) I have no beef with anyone who calls on the name of Jesus unless it is to profane it.

Even muslims and other religions believe in the names of their god. Names are important and we should use them whether or not we have the authority or not at that moment. The next time my children are sick I am going to pray in the name of Jesus for their healing regardless of how vain someone else thinks it is. God's "authority" or "will" is up to Him.

P.S. you are making this more complicated then what it needs to be. You should encourage people to call upon Jesus name because that shows that they are placing their faith in who He is.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

What constitutes using the authority to his name? I only know how to call on the name. I don't how to use the authority because that is up to Him. I have prayed for many things in my life with faith in Jesus and using his name, but God did not do what I asked. I believe in His authority and His will and sometimes it is not going to have the outcome that I want.

You may not be meaning to, but your argument sounds like the name is pointless. People will never know when God is going to move supernaturally, and many who are baptized in Jesus name may not make it to heaven, but that does not change the fact that we should call on his name literally. Just because a man repeatedly yells out the name of Jesus and nothing is evident who are we to say that it was in vain.(Many times that is done out of desperation) I have no beef with anyone who calls on the name of Jesus unless it is to profane it.

Even muslims and other religions believe in the names of their god. Names are important and we should use them whether or not we have the authority or not at that moment. The next time my children are sick I am going to pray in the name of Jesus for their healing regardless of how vain someone else thinks it is. God's "authority" or "will" is up to Him.

P.S. you are making this more complicated then what it needs to be. You should encourage people to call upon Jesus name because that shows that they are placing their faith in who He is.

Wow. Either I am not articulating my points adequately or you are having a hard time assimilating information. If I encounter a demon possessed person, and I address the demons by saying, "I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, endowed by him with authority to cast out demons, and I command you to leave now", I have used the name (authority). I do not need to keep saying the name over and over and over. It won't hurt anything if I do, but it is not necessary either.

If the demon resists, I have found that worshiping Jesus Christ in the demon's presence is more effective than just repeating his name.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Wow. Either I am not articulating my points adequately or you are having a hard time assimilating information. If I encounter a demon possessed person, and I address the demons by saying, "I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, endowed by him with authority to cast out demons, and I command you to leave now", I have used the name (authority). I do not need to keep saying the name over and over and over. It won't hurt anything if I do, but it is not necessary either.

I agree about the repitiveness, but most people would probably do it because they didn't get immediate results. I don't condemn them it shows faith. You sound like you don't have to use the name because you somehow possess the authority of God.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I agree about the repitiveness, but most people would probably do it because they didn't get immediate results. I don't condemn them it shows faith. You sound like you don't have to use the name because you somehow possess the authority of God.

"Behold I give you power to tread upon serpents and scorpions and over all power of the enemy."

Do you believe that Good Samaritan? Either he gave this authority when he filled you with his Spirit or he did not. The authority is present in you because he who holds all authority lives in you, not because you can rattle off his name 100 times in a minute thinking that will wear out a demon and make him leave.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

"Behold I give you power to tread upon serpents and scorpions and over all power of the enemy."

Do you believe that Good Samaritan? Either he gave this authority when he filled you with his Spirit or he did not. The authority is present in you because he who holds all authority lives in you, not because you can rattle off his name 100 times in a minute thinking that will wear out a demon and make him leave.

No wonder you oppose the spoken name as the source of the power. You are around folks that say it 100 times a minute.

An auctioneer will make a lousy baptizer or excorciser...LOL

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Wow. Either I am not articulating my points adequately or you are having a hard time assimilating information. If I encounter a demon possessed person, and I address the demons by saying, "I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, endowed by him with authority to cast out demons, and I command you to leave now", I have used the name (authority). I do not need to keep saying the name over and over and over. It won't hurt anything if I do, but it is not necessary either.

If the demon resists, I have found that worshiping Jesus Christ in his presence is more effective than just repeating his name.

The name does not have to be said over and over, but it does have to be said in faith, for God to step in and work through you. He just demands it.

[mfblume]

Why are some pictures of fanatics and errant people always brought up whenever something that can be done the correct way is mentioned?

The truth is that speaking the name of Jesus in faith that God will work, is not putting faith in our sound waves as though God need not be involved. God's Word is powerful enough to create. I believe speaking the name of Jesus in genuine and correct faith actually moves God to work and accomplish a supernatural feat. We are labourers together with Christ. We cannot do anything without Him. He's the vine that supplies the life into us the branches.

Invoking His name is part of what is required to see God move, just because He said so! Speaking His name in and of itself does nothing, as is evident from the exorcists who spoke His name in Acts 19 and accomplished nothing.

But when a person speaks the name of Jesus to cast out devils, for example, something actually happens supernaturally by God that would not happen if the name was not invoked. Again, do not confuse this with mere sound waves as though God's power is not involved. God sees us speak His name in faith that we are one with Him by the work of the cross, and HE STEPS IN AND WORKS! That is a far cry from "abracadabra".

The demons feel a power overwhelm them and they leave.

Speaking the actual name "JESUS" was implied when Jesus told us to cast out devils in His name. The reference to "in my name" is found in the command to cast out devils as well as to baptize people. That does not mean the casting out is common as though we cast out sin. Far from it. It simply means baptizing people must include the actual utterance of the name TO SEE GOD'S POWER WORK. God steps in and no sins are cast out (lo) but He puts us into the death of Christ and operates a spiritual circumcision in our hearts to remove the body of sins of the flesh, and not physical flesh as in natural circumcision. God actually does something.

The actual working of God in His power is what is common in casting out devils while speaking Jesus' name as well as baptism while speaking that name. The commonality IS NOT something cast out, as Originalist thought I implied.

Because Jesus commanded us to cast out devils in His name as well as baptise in His name, and because we read Paul actually invoking that name (whether the demons knew him or not) in obedience to Christ's command, we know that actually invoking the name must be administered in baptism.

We never see Paul cast a devil out without invoking the name Jesus, as you implied can be done, Originalist, if the devils already know us. They knew Paul. He still used the invocation.

Again, GOD DOES A WORK when we invoke that name. He does a work that simply He does not do when the name is not invoked. One brother agreed he would not seek to attempt to cast out a devil without invoking the name. By the same token, I would never seek to baptize someone without invoking the name. It's not the sound waves that do anything. It's HIS NAME THROUGH FAITH IN HIS NAME that moves GOD TO DO THE WORK described in Romans 6 and Col 2:11-12, and the remission of sins in Acts 2:38. And without repentance as well, it cannot happen.

[Originalist]

A post full of misrepresentation and straw man arguments. In particular the comment below....

Originally Posted by mfblume

We never see Paul cast a devil out without invoking the name Jesus, as you implied can be done, Originalist, if the devils already know us. They knew Paul. He still used the invocation.

.

I will now repost what I actually said.....

If I encounter a demon possessed person, and I address the demons by saying, "I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, endowed by him with authority to cast out demons, and I command you to leave now", I have used the name (authority). I do not need to keep saying the name over and over and over. It won't hurt anything if I do, but it is not necessary either.

If the demon resists, I have found that worshiping Jesus Christ in the demon's presence is more effective than just repeating his name.

By repeating the name over and over, no more supernatural power will be released by God to aid me against the demon than if I only said his name once. Either I have the authority to cast him out or I don't. If the demon tries to resist , I will begin to worship the Lord creating an atmosphere he simply will not be able to abide in.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

A post full of misrepresentation and straw man arguments. In particular the comment below....





I will now repost what I actually said.....



By repeating the name over and over, no more supernatural power will be released by God to aid me against the demon than if I only said his name once. Either I have the authority to cast him out or I don't. If the demon tries to resist , I will begin to worship the Lord creating an atmosphere he simply will not be able to abide in.

If something is said in mistake it's not the same as a strawman. I thought you implied the name not be said at all for the devil to be cast out. But if that is not the case, then thanks for the correction.

At any rate, there is the demand for the name to be invoked in baptism to see God move.