born of water

[Originalist]

Let me clarify. I'd say that normatively one would indeed invoke the name of Jesus when confronting a demon. But personally I would do so by informing him from the start that I am a disciple of Jesus Christ endowed with authority to cast out devils. After that there would be no need to repeat over and over "in the name of Jesus!" which can itself become vain repetition.

I fail to see how this was not an adequate answer.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I can accept much of what you say here.

My biggest beefs are with people who, when trying to cast out a demon, scream "in the name of Jesus!" at the top of their lungs over and over and over like that is somehow going to intimidate the demon into leaving. That's not what constitutes using the authority of his name.

What constitutes using the authority to his name? I only know how to call on the name. I don't how to use the authority because that is up to Him. I have prayed for many things in my life with faith in Jesus and using his name, but God did not do what I asked. I believe in His authority and His will and sometimes it is not going to have the outcome that I want.

You may not be meaning to, but your argument sounds like the name is pointless. People will never know when God is going to move supernaturally, and many who are baptized in Jesus name may not make it to heaven, but that does not change the fact that we should call on his name literally. Just because a man repeatedly yells out the name of Jesus and nothing is evident who are we to say that it was in vain.(Many times that is done out of desperation) I have no beef with anyone who calls on the name of Jesus unless it is to profane it.

Even muslims and other religions believe in the names of their god. Names are important and we should use them whether or not we have the authority or not at that moment. The next time my children are sick I am going to pray in the name of Jesus for their healing regardless of how vain someone else thinks it is. God's "authority" or "will" is up to Him.

P.S. you are making this more complicated then what it needs to be. You should encourage people to call upon Jesus name because that shows that they are placing their faith in who He is.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

What constitutes using the authority to his name? I only know how to call on the name. I don't how to use the authority because that is up to Him. I have prayed for many things in my life with faith in Jesus and using his name, but God did not do what I asked. I believe in His authority and His will and sometimes it is not going to have the outcome that I want.

You may not be meaning to, but your argument sounds like the name is pointless. People will never know when God is going to move supernaturally, and many who are baptized in Jesus name may not make it to heaven, but that does not change the fact that we should call on his name literally. Just because a man repeatedly yells out the name of Jesus and nothing is evident who are we to say that it was in vain.(Many times that is done out of desperation) I have no beef with anyone who calls on the name of Jesus unless it is to profane it.

Even muslims and other religions believe in the names of their god. Names are important and we should use them whether or not we have the authority or not at that moment. The next time my children are sick I am going to pray in the name of Jesus for their healing regardless of how vain someone else thinks it is. God's "authority" or "will" is up to Him.

P.S. you are making this more complicated then what it needs to be. You should encourage people to call upon Jesus name because that shows that they are placing their faith in who He is.

Wow. Either I am not articulating my points adequately or you are having a hard time assimilating information. If I encounter a demon possessed person, and I address the demons by saying, "I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, endowed by him with authority to cast out demons, and I command you to leave now", I have used the name (authority). I do not need to keep saying the name over and over and over. It won't hurt anything if I do, but it is not necessary either.

If the demon resists, I have found that worshiping Jesus Christ in the demon's presence is more effective than just repeating his name.

[mfblume]

Why are some pictures of fanatics and errant people always brought up whenever something that can be done the correct way is mentioned?

The truth is that speaking the name of Jesus in faith that God will work, is not putting faith in our sound waves as though God need not be involved. God's Word is powerful enough to create. I believe speaking the name of Jesus in genuine and correct faith actually moves God to work and accomplish a supernatural feat. We are labourers together with Christ. We cannot do anything without Him. He's the vine that supplies the life into us the branches.

Invoking His name is part of what is required to see God move, just because He said so! Speaking His name in and of itself does nothing, as is evident from the exorcists who spoke His name in Acts 19 and accomplished nothing.

But when a person speaks the name of Jesus to cast out devils, for example, something actually happens supernaturally by God that would not happen if the name was not invoked. Again, do not confuse this with mere sound waves as though God's power is not involved. God sees us speak His name in faith that we are one with Him by the work of the cross, and HE STEPS IN AND WORKS! That is a far cry from "abracadabra".

The demons feel a power overwhelm them and they leave.

Speaking the actual name "JESUS" was implied when Jesus told us to cast out devils in His name. The reference to "in my name" is found in the command to cast out devils as well as to baptize people. That does not mean the casting out is common as though we cast out sin. Far from it. It simply means baptizing people must include the actual utterance of the name TO SEE GOD'S POWER WORK. God steps in and no sins are cast out (lo) but He puts us into the death of Christ and operates a spiritual circumcision in our hearts to remove the body of sins of the flesh, and not physical flesh as in natural circumcision. God actually does something.

The actual working of God in His power is what is common in casting out devils while speaking Jesus' name as well as baptism while speaking that name. The commonality IS NOT something cast out, as Originalist thought I implied.

Because Jesus commanded us to cast out devils in His name as well as baptise in His name, and because we read Paul actually invoking that name (whether the demons knew him or not) in obedience to Christ's command, we know that actually invoking the name must be administered in baptism.

We never see Paul cast a devil out without invoking the name Jesus, as you implied can be done, Originalist, if the devils already know us. They knew Paul. He still used the invocation.

Again, GOD DOES A WORK when we invoke that name. He does a work that simply He does not do when the name is not invoked. One brother agreed he would not seek to attempt to cast out a devil without invoking the name. By the same token, I would never seek to baptize someone without invoking the name. It's not the sound waves that do anything. It's HIS NAME THROUGH FAITH IN HIS NAME that moves GOD TO DO THE WORK described in Romans 6 and Col 2:11-12, and the remission of sins in Acts 2:38. And without repentance as well, it cannot happen.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Wow. Either I am not articulating my points adequately or you are having a hard time assimilating information. If I encounter a demon possessed person, and I address the demons by saying, "I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, endowed by him with authority to cast out demons, and I command you to leave now", I have used the name (authority). I do not need to keep saying the name over and over and over. It won't hurt anything if I do, but it is not necessary either.

I agree about the repitiveness, but most people would probably do it because they didn't get immediate results. I don't condemn them it shows faith. You sound like you don't have to use the name because you somehow possess the authority of God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Wow. Either I am not articulating my points adequately or you are having a hard time assimilating information. If I encounter a demon possessed person, and I address the demons by saying, "I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, endowed by him with authority to cast out demons, and I command you to leave now", I have used the name (authority). I do not need to keep saying the name over and over and over. It won't hurt anything if I do, but it is not necessary either.

If the demon resists, I have found that worshiping Jesus Christ in his presence is more effective than just repeating his name.

The name does not have to be said over and over, but it does have to be said in faith, for God to step in and work through you. He just demands it.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I fail to see how this was not an adequate answer.

I fail to see, then, why you just could not say yes.

[Originalist]

A post full of misrepresentation and straw man arguments. In particular the comment below....

Originally Posted by mfblume

We never see Paul cast a devil out without invoking the name Jesus, as you implied can be done, Originalist, if the devils already know us. They knew Paul. He still used the invocation.

.

I will now repost what I actually said.....

If I encounter a demon possessed person, and I address the demons by saying, "I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, endowed by him with authority to cast out demons, and I command you to leave now", I have used the name (authority). I do not need to keep saying the name over and over and over. It won't hurt anything if I do, but it is not necessary either.

If the demon resists, I have found that worshiping Jesus Christ in the demon's presence is more effective than just repeating his name.

By repeating the name over and over, no more supernatural power will be released by God to aid me against the demon than if I only said his name once. Either I have the authority to cast him out or I don't. If the demon tries to resist , I will begin to worship the Lord creating an atmosphere he simply will not be able to abide in.

[Originalist]

16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.

17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her. (Acts 16:16-18)

Here Paul used the authority he possessed by virtue of the fact he was a Spirit filled child of God. It wasn't that anything supernatural had to be released by invoking the name of Jesus. When the demon realized by what authority Paul commanded him to leave, he knew he had no choice but to go. He knew that greater was he that was already IN Paul! Paul did not have to repeat the name of Jesus over and over like we think we have to.

Now certainly there is a necessity of using the name in order to demonstrate to unregenerate witnesses the authority that Jesus Christ possesses. This is why the Lord "confirmed the word with signs following".

I find the story of the sons of Sceva to be interesting, in particular the reaction this incident brought to the witnesses and others in that region that received word of it....

17 When this became known to the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor.

18 Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed what they had done.

19 A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas.[c]

20 In this way the word of the Lord spread widely and grew in power.

This incident made them realize that it was not the name of Jesus itself that held power, but the one who bore that precious name, and that the apostles were endowed with authority by the one who bears that name (Jesus himself) because they were his followers!

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Why are some pictures of fanatics and errant people always brought up whenever something that can be done the correct way is mentioned?
The truth is that speaking the name of Jesus in faith that God will work, is not putting faith in our sound waves as though God need not be involved. God's Word is powerful enough to create. I believe speaking the name of Jesus in genuine and correct faith actually moves God to work and accomplish a supernatural feat. We are labourers together with Christ. We cannot do anything without Him. He's the vine that supplies the life into us the branches.
Invoking His name is part of what is required to see God move, just because He said so! Speaking His name in and of itself does nothing, as is evident from the exorcists who spoke His name in Acts 19 and accomplished nothing.
But when a person speaks the name of Jesus to cast out devils, for example, something actually happens supernaturally by God that would not happen if the name was not invoked. Again, do not confuse this with mere sound waves as though God's power is not involved. God sees us speak His name in faith that we are one with Him by the work of the cross, and HE STEPS IN AND WORKS! That is a far cry from "abracadabra".
The demons feel a power overwhelm them and they leave.
Speaking the actual name "JESUS" was implied when Jesus told us to cast out devils in His name. The reference to "in my name" is found in the command to cast out devils as well as to baptize people. That does not mean the casting out is common as though we cast out sin. Far from it. It simply means baptizing people must include the actual utterance of the name TO SEE GOD'S POWER WORK. God steps in and no sins are cast out (lo) but He puts us into the death of Christ and operates a spiritual circumcision in our hearts to remove the body of sins of the flesh, and not physical flesh as in natural circumcision. God actually does something.
The actual working of God in His power is what is common in casting out devils while speaking Jesus' name as well as baptism while speaking that name. The commonality IS NOT something cast out, as Originalist thought I implied.
Because Jesus commanded us to cast out devils in His name as well as baptise in His name, and because we read Paul actually invoking that name (whether the demons knew him or not) in obedience to Christ's command, we know that actually invoking the name must be administered in baptism.
We never see Paul cast a devil out without invoking the name Jesus, as you implied can be done, Originalist, if the devils already know us. They knew Paul. He still used the invocation.
Again, GOD DOES A WORK when we invoke that name. He does a work that simply He does not do when the name is not invoked. One brother agreed he would not seek to attempt to cast out a devil without invoking the name. By the same token, I would never seek to baptize someone without invoking the name. It's not the sound waves that do anything. It's HIS NAME THROUGH FAITH IN HIS NAME that moves GOD TO DO THE WORK described in Romans 6 and Col 2:11-12, and the remission of sins in Acts 2:38. And without repentance as well, it cannot happen.

Good post. If I my interject...

"Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship..."
We are the work of God through the very work He performed in the body of
the Lamb of God.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my NAME shall they cast out devils,
they shall speak with new tongues..." And just WHO are they that will cast out devils
and speak with new tongues, etc.? They are the very ones who believed
and were baptized and received the promise of salvation!