born of water

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by obriencp

I've bolded the areas in MFBlumes recent posts are troubling to me. It seems he's implying that God will do something if we literally speak His name, but won't if we don't. If God's will isn't for something to happen and we "invoke" his name because we believe we're in his will, do you really believe He will do what we want because we used His name?

How on earth can it not be God's will to do his work when we baptize someone in his name for you to say it may not be his will? I am talking about doing things in his name that he commanded us to do. Baptism in this case. You're taking this way out there.

I believe Originalist took issue too and replied below.

Here again, if the repentant person is being baptized and placing their faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross for them, but the baptizer doesn't physically say "in the name of Jesus," their sins are unforgiven?

Show me where you get the authority to say otherwise.

You can't have it both ways MFBlume. In some instances you place the emphasis on the intent and faith of the person acting according to God's will even if they don't invoke the name, but in other posts you seem to over emphasize the importance of physically invoking the name.

It's both that are required.

If we are in tune with God's will and functioning in the authority of His name, what we pray "in Jesus' name" (either authoritative or literally speaking) will come to pass. If we're not in tune with His will, physically praying for something in the "name of Jesus" will not force God to honor our prayer and alter His will for that situation.

That is moot when it comes to baptism in his name.

It's always his will to do the work he does in baptism when everyone involved is there for salvation. How can you even apply this reasoning to baptism? We're talking about baptism.

Of course a thing had to be God's will before he works. That's a given. He won't work just because we invoke his name. But he also demands it in baptism.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Of course a thing had to be God's will before he works. That's a given. He won't work just because we invoke his name. But he also demands it in baptism.

Thanks for clarifying that He won't just work because we invoke his name.

I'm not going to say someones sins aren't remitted if the baptizer did it according to their misunderstanding. If the one being baptized is placing their faith in Jesus and entering a covenant relationship with him to be Lord of their life, how can you say they're not saved?

Now we have to rely on another man's understanding/obedience for our salvation?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Thanks for clarifying that He won't just work because we invoke his name.

I'm not going to say someones sins aren't remitted if the baptizer did it according to their misunderstanding. If the one being baptized is placing their faith in Jesus and entering a covenant relationship with him to be Lord of their life, how can you say they're not saved?

Now we have to rely on another man's understanding/obedience for our salvation?

That is the fundamental flaw of many of our brethren. That and not really understanding what God is doing and declaring by baptizing someone with the Spirit.