Islam: A Religion of Lies...

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

As I said before, Ive been in conversations with many Muslim men and they ALL justify older men..sometimes upwards of 60 years old, to 14 year old girls

They justify it by arguing that its better than the alternative which is raping her or adultery with an older woman...

you actually wont find that in the Quran or Hadith. See previous discussion on marriage age and marriage in general.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

you actually wont find that in the Quran or Hadith. See previous discussion on marriage age and marriage in general.

Walks do you read what we are posting?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

you actually wont find that in the Quran or Hadith. See previous discussion on marriage age and marriage in general.

But what is it about Islam that all those men justify it? BTW we all know Muhammad married Aisha as a little girl.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

But what is it about Islam that all those men justify it? BTW we all know Muhammad married Aisha as a little girl.

Ah, good Q. Muslim men have a complex, there is no denying it. Many of the men are charming, but complete whores. I cnt really say that i see much difference in their treatment of women v our standard, unless it be that maybe satan was able to take it a little further with them via the fgm thing, was my take on it. satan attacks the men in a society, and this is how it was expressed with Muslims. It isnt better or worse, but just different. They love their women, too. It isn't as if we werent swimming in our own heathen practices.

I was most affected by seeing the radiance of the more oppressed in Muslim women. This Scriptural principle, that one might not think to apply to a non Christian, is actually just a constant. It comes out in their men, also, if one is meek in approach.

Suffering expunges sin, and Ishmael is called to contend with you, that your premises may be revealed. If you think God does not love Ishmael as much as Isaac, read the text again; this was Abraham's son also, even if it was Abraham's idea. None of you have 7 nations coming from your loins.

So if you really think that there's any diff in Islamophobia or angelic rebellion (stemming from the angels' refusal to bow to humans, or otherwise) then I'd be curious to hear it.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

But what is it about Islam that all those men justify it? BTW we all know Muhammad married Aisha as a little girl.

See previous (detailed and exhausting) discussion about marriage and marriage age. It has been justified and allowed through all of history until the 19th century and it certainly was not the church, any church, that changed it and it certainly was not a scripture, or passage, or verse, or religious teaching, that triggered that change.

I wonder why you and your fellows, while cheerfully pointing out that this has not been changed in Islamic teaching, cannot explain what is it about the UPC that all of these ministers still justify it. They demonstrate this justification by acting out on it.

It is bad enough that not only the individuals, but the organization itself was named as a defendant in the prosecution of it. I did not prosecute your organization, Texas did. Texas did not do that because the UPC was taking a stand about it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

But what is it about Islam that all those men justify it? BTW we all know Muhammad married Aisha as a little girl.

Surat Al-'Aĥzāb 33:21

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT PATTERN for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.

Muhsin Khan

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a GOOD EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

Yusuf Ali

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a BEAUTIFUL PATTERN (OF CONDUCT) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

Shakir

Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT EXEMPLAR for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

Sahih Muslim 8. 3310

'A'ISHA (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was SIX YEARS OLD, and I was admitted to his house when I was NINE YEARS OLD.

Sahih Bukhari 7. 62. 65

Narrated 'A'ISHA: that the Prophet married her when she was SIX YEARS OLD and he CONSUMMATED his marriage when she was NINE YEARS OLD. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari 7. 62. 88

Narrated 'Ursa:The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was SIX YEARS OLD and CONSUMMATED his marriage with her while she was NINE YEARS OLD and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Surat Al-'Aĥzāb 33:21

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT PATTERN for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.

Muhsin Khan

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a GOOD EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

Yusuf Ali

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a BEAUTIFUL PATTERN (OF CONDUCT) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

Shakir

Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT EXEMPLAR for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

Sahih Muslim 8. 3310

'A'ISHA (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was SIX YEARS OLD, and I was admitted to his house when I was NINE YEARS OLD.

Sahih Bukhari 7. 62. 65

Narrated 'A'ISHA: that the Prophet married her when she was SIX YEARS OLD and he CONSUMMATED his marriage when she was NINE YEARS OLD. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari 7. 62. 88

Narrated 'Ursa:The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was SIX YEARS OLD and CONSUMMATED his marriage with her while she was NINE YEARS OLD and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Missing: The bible verse that condemns this action.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Missing: The bible verse that condemns this action.

Ezekiel 16:4-14

4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.

5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.

6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

7 I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou HAST INCREASED and WAXEN GREAT, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: THEY BREASTS WERE FASHIONED, and thine HAIR IS GROWN, whereas thou wast naked and bare.

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, THY TIME WAS THE TIME OF LOVE; and I SPREAD MY SKIRT over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into A COVENANT with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou BECAMEST MINE.

9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.

10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.

12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.

14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.

Ezekiel 16:7

Into myriads––like the bud of the field, made I thee, And THOU DIDST INCREASE, and BECOME WELL-GROWN, and didst attain to most excellent adornments,––Thy breasts, were WELL-FORMED, And, thy hair, WAS GROWN, But, thou thyself, wast utterly naked. ~Rotherham's Emphasized Bible

Ezekiel 16:7

I made you flourish like a plant of the field. And YOU GREW UP AND BECAME TALL and ARRIVED at FULL ADORNMENT. Your BREAST WERE FORMED, and your HAIR HAD GROWN; yet you were naked and bare.

Ezekiel 16:7

I made you thrive like plants of the field. You GREW UP and MATURED and became very beautiful. Your BREASTS WERE FORMED and your HAIR GREW, but you were stark naked.

This is the Prophet Ezekiel speaking of Israel, first as a swaddled baby, and then growing to maturity, with fully formed breasts, and pubic hair fully grown. Then the Prophet Ezekiel speaks about the Lord God marrying her.

Six and nine year old girls weren't considered fully grown, with matured breasts.

Just in case anyone can't understand the difference of a 9 year old to a fully grown adults, here is a diagram. Aisha nine years old wouldn't of fit the description in Ezekiel 16:7.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Surat Al-'Aĥzāb 33:21

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT PATTERN for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.

Muhsin Khan

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a GOOD EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

Yusuf Ali

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a BEAUTIFUL PATTERN (OF CONDUCT) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

Shakir

Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT EXEMPLAR for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.



No Thanks!

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Surat Al-'Aĥzāb 33:21

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT PATTERN for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.

Muhsin Khan

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a GOOD EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

Yusuf Ali

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a BEAUTIFUL PATTERN (OF CONDUCT) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

Shakir

Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT EXEMPLAR for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.



No Thanks!

There is a bit of evidence here and there that God really does not apply the title of "excellent" and "good example" based on sexual activity. You and your peers focus on it a lot more than God did when he sent the law down. Your obsession with it is a source of mild concern to me but each to their own.

There is actually a LOT of evidence, previously discussed with the now happily absent pliny (his posts were genius compared to yours sadly) that God (except for specifically identified laws) is silent on the issue.

From an earlier post an example of this.

At one time in history:

Genesis 20:11–12

And Abraham said, “Because I thought, surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will kill me on account of my wife. But indeed she is truly my sister. She is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

YET God said:

I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.[a]
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

Later in History:

Deuteronomy 27:22

‘Cursed is the one who lies with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ [Also see Leviticus 18:6–9.]

Bless or Curse? Seems to me that worshipping and believing in God might trump your views on what God might or might not give a nod to in terms of marriage and though with you it is "all about the sex" with others it might be a focus on God, submission to God, and worship of God and not about sex at all. Seems the common thread in the posted Hadith is about believing in God, not about who and how marriage is practiced.

As exampled above of course.