Islam: A Religion of Lies...

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Parable? So, in Ezekiel 16:4 when babies were in the ancient middle east, they didn't really cut the umbilical cord, wash the child, salt the child prior to her first swaddling? Also unwanted children were never left out for exposure Ezekiel 16:6?

If you were a honest individual you would say, of course the ancient eastern people did those things mentioned. Therefore you would agree the rest of the story (while symbolic) deals with issues those living at the time of its writings would understand. God was entering into a marriage contract "covenant" with the people, His bride.

Ezekiel 16:8

Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, THY TIME WAS THE TIME OF LOVE; and I SPREAD MY SKIRT over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into A COVENANT with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou BECAMEST MINE.

From verses 9-13 Ezekiel describes a bride adorned for her husband, and in verse 14 Ezekiel describes how the Gentiles heard about her beauty which God had placed upon her.

Am I implying that ALL Christianity was made up? No, because you would have to prove that across the board 53 year old men were taking nine year old wives and impregnating them throughout all Christianity from the first century to the nineteenth century. Unlike Islam which had to compile Hadith to build an actual religion, the scripture is enough to understand what God is trying to convey to us. But isn't that what the Quran says also?

Interesting how Mohammed had to pass away in order for the multitude of Hadith to pop up. Would Mohammed have approved of the many Hadith which came after his death? Not if he was the messenger of the Quran which held these verses, Surat Az-Zumar 39:23, Surat Al-Jāthiyah 45:6-11? So, while you want to point out innovations in Christendom, try to point out the innovations of your own religion. Innovations which started since the death of its original fabricator.

So, back to the discussion of your religious fabricator...

Walks, Surat Al-'Aĥzāb 33:21 says that Mohammed is your excellent example one which should be emulated. Aisha says in Sahih Bukhari 7. 62. 65 that Mohammed consummated the marriage while she was nine years old. Aisha also says in Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234 that she became ill, her hair fell out (probably traumatized), then when it started to grow again, Aisha's mother grabbed her (Aisha explains how she was terrified) frightened that the mother had to rub water in her face. Medinan women then take the young frightened nine year old girl to prepare her for 53 year old man, telling the child how fortunate she will be with the 53 year old man. Mohammed is said to have "unexpectedly" show up, Aisha's mother then takes Aisha hands her over to the 53 year old man so he can consummate his wife in marriage.

In Sunni commentary of Sahih al-Bukhari, Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13 the writers attempt to explain why Aisha is playing with dolls since they are forbidden to be used by older girls. What is explained to the readers concerning Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151 is that nine year old Aisha was pre pubescent nine year old, and therefore still allowed to play with dolls. Clearly in the chapter of Ezekiel I offered you, that isn't the case. Israel is symbolically shown as a bride, who is fully formed and ready to enter covenant. Yet, in Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151 Aisha is playing with her little friends, with dolls. The Sunni commentary of Sahih al-Bukhari, clearly explains that Mohammed was with a nine year old who wasn't yet in puberty.

Therefore this is why Walks in "whatever" condones 53 year old men with young pre pubescent girls?

Do you Walks?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

No. What was acceptable in the 8th century is no longer applicable to today.

Were you assuming that all Muslims believe the same things? As you say christianity has "evolved", so has Islam.

You should peek into Islamic law before you assume that "child marriage is mainstream".

http://www.academia.edu/6760706/Marr...ge_Islamic_Law

Unfortunately no phonics for you. You will have to struggle through it without them. Wait, you don't open links. Facts terrify you.

Let's summarize.

The range of marriageable ages for males extends from 15 years according to
the Hanbali, the Shafi’i and the Jafari schools to 17 or 18 years in Hanafi and Maliki teaching.

For female spouses, the range of marriageable ages extends from a high of 17 years, as represented by the Hanafi school, to 15 years according to both Shafi’i and Hanbali opinion, and down to as little as nine years according to Jafari teaching.

My wife is from Indonesia (most populous Muslim country). In her particular country the minimum marriage age is 16.


Erasmus was the old devil who sort of "rushed his new testament translations into print" resulting in a translation error or two. Carried into the german translations etc etc LOL. Did not find any record that this scholar who could translate Greek and Latin scriptures really identified and spoke up about the REAL meaning of the parable about God and Israel.

He missed it too.

Previously discussed:

Jewish law at the time of Jesus
Canon law
Laws in Colonial America

Did I miss some critical period of time? LOL I guess I did

(Erasmus) "it isn�t rare to see, esp among the French, a girl hardly ten years old married, and a mother at 11"

I know one thing. I have asked you all for that elusive time in history when the christian church wrote down or documented this interpretation of that parable more times than you have asked me what I am "doing here". So far zilch. So marriage age per the church magically appeared in the last 200 years. (actually the last hundred). Why so long if Ezekiel specified it?

If you were an honest individual you would note that this is a symbolic story and not meant to be, intended to be, or about anything but Israel's idolatry at the time of Ezekiel. But after the feminists got the marriage ages raised in the 19th century it IS a cool source (the ONLY one at that) for you to go back and 'discover' "that's how it was meant to be anyway".

Unless you have something else? Anything?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

No. What was acceptable in the 8th century is no longer applicable to today.

Were you assuming that all Muslims believe the same things? As you say christianity has "evolved", so has Islam.

You should peek into Islamic law before you assume that "child marriage is mainstream".

http://www.academia.edu/6760706/Marr...ge_Islamic_Law

Unfortunately no phonics for you. You will have to struggle through it without them. Wait, you don't open links. Facts terrify you.

Let's summarize.

The range of marriageable ages for males extends from 15 years according to
the Hanbali, the Shafi’i and the Jafari schools to 17 or 18 years in Hanafi and Maliki teaching.

For female spouses, the range of marriageable ages extends from a high of 17 years, as represented by the Hanafi school, to 15 years according to both Shafi’i and Hanbali opinion, and down to as little as nine years according to Jafari teaching.

My wife is from Indonesia (most populous Muslim country). In her particular country the minimum marriage age is 16.


Erasmus was the old devil who sort of "rushed his new testament translations into print" resulting in a translation error or two. Carried into the german translations etc etc LOL. Did not find any record that this scholar who could translate Greek and Latin scriptures really identified and spoke up about the REAL meaning of the parable about God and Israel.

He missed it too.

Previously discussed:

Jewish law at the time of Jesus
Canon law
Laws in Colonial America

Did I miss some critical period of time? LOL I guess I did

(Erasmus) "it isn�t rare to see, esp among the French, a girl hardly ten years old married, and a mother at 11"

I know one thing. I have asked you all for that elusive time in history when the christian church wrote down or documented this interpretation of that parable more times than you have asked me what I am "doing here". So far zilch. So marriage age per the church magically appeared in the last 200 years. (actually the last hundred). Why so long if Ezekiel specified it?

If you were an honest individual you would note that this is a symbolic story and not meant to be, intended to be, or about anything but Israel's idolatry at the time of Ezekiel. But after the feminists got the marriage ages raised in the 19th century it IS a cool source (the ONLY one at that) for you to go back and 'discover' "that's how it was meant to be anyway".

Unless you have something else? Anything?

Erasmus is the prophet of Christianity?

Ezekiel explains the marriage between Israel and God. You ask for scripture and you get it, but still looking for some other manuscript? Sorry, Jesus is questioned by the teachers of the law at 12. Jesus tells his parents that He is busy at His father's business. Jesus still had to submit to parents, and get ready for His bar mitzvah to enter community. These individuals were marrying after they passed puberty, something which wasn't granted to Aisha.

You have lost the discussion.

You have Quran saying that Mohammed is your prime example on how to live, and Hadith on Asia's testimony on Mohammed consummating marriage with her at nine. If you are Muslim, then he is your example no matter what ruling on child brides come later. Sorry you lose.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Therefore this is why Walks in "whatever" condones 53 year old men with young pre pubescent girls?

Do you Walks?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

No.

What was acceptable in the 8th century is no longer applicable to today.

Were you assuming that all Muslims believe the same things? As you say christianity has "evolved", so has Islam.

No? What was acceptable in the 8th century is no longer acceptable? But your Quran states that Mohammad is a BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLE to follow. The Quran makes statements in a few surahs that it is an unchanging book. Therefore no matter who decides what in a sharia courtroom, doesn't mean anything. You know why you do have child brides, the same reason the FLDS still have polygamy, and child brides, because it was taught to both schools to follow the example of their prophets.

Discussion done.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

No. What was acceptable in the 8th century is no longer applicable to today.

My experience with Muslims is they justify child marriages today..several do it for sexual reasons...ie if they did not marry a girl they might go rape one or commit adultery with an older woman

They also all still believe an adulterous woman should be stoned to death. To justify it they also quote the OT, rather than say "We dont believe in practicing that any more"

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

My experience with Muslims is they justify child marriages today..several do it for sexual reasons...ie if they did not marry a girl they might go rape one or commit adultery with an older woman

They also all still believe an adulterous woman should be stoned to death. To justify it they also quote the OT, rather than say "We dont believe in practicing that any more"

I was referencing a study on specific laws (current) in specific Muslim countries and the Islamic rulings that provide the foundation of those laws. It's not really good to "fatwah shop" and I view the passing of laws on a national scale as a better indication of progress in this area.

Those you speak to might believe that an adulterous woman should be stoned to death, but do they believe that the requirements for death penalty case must be carefully followed? Do they believe that absent 4 independent witnesses the accuser earns lashings, the accused walks free? That is what the Quran says.

That is a high burden of proof. Impossibly high. It is believed that this was deliberately so.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I was referencing a study on specific laws (current) in specific Muslim countries and the Islamic rulings that provide the foundation of those laws. It's not really good to "fatwah shop" and I view the passing of laws on a national scale as a better indication of progress in this area.

Those you speak to might believe that an adulterous woman should be stoned to death, but do they believe that the requirements for death penalty case must be carefully followed? Do they believe that absent 4 independent witnesses the accuser earns lashings, the accused walks free? That is what the Quran says.

That is a high burden of proof. Impossibly high. It is believed that this was deliberately so.

So you believe that an adulterous woman should be buried to her shoulders and stoned to death?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So you believe that an adulterous woman should be buried to her shoulders and stoned to death?

Is adultery a capital offense?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Is adultery a capital offense?

Not in the Quran, unless some previously unknown verses were revealed to Prax or his little cell of street Muslims.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Not in the Quran, unless some previously unknown verses were revealed to Prax or his little cell of street Muslims.

According to the Law of God, adultery is a capital crime.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Not in the Quran, unless some previously unknown verses were revealed to Prax or his little cell of street Muslims.

What happened to this verse?

Book 017, Number 4194:

'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.