McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Pneuman]

Originally Posted by n david

I was raised in the UPCI, though I'm not with any organization now. My father has been a licensed minister with the UPCI for almost 65 years. He started a couple churches and has pastored in different areas for over 50 years, 35 of which was at one church. Both my parents have been in various District departments, and because of that, most of my childhood and teenage years were spent traveling around various states.

I say this because I have never visited or known of a church with the UPCI which believes the Holy Ghost is subsequent to salvation. And I definitely haven't visited or known of a church with the UPCI which believes in the Roman's 10 confession for salvation nonesense.

What are the names of these churches with the UPCI which believe in a Roman's 10 confession for salvation or that the Holy Ghost is just subsequent to salvation? Where are they located? What are the names of the Pastors?


I'm well aware of the history of the UPCI and the merger. The UPCI does not believe in a Roman's 10 confession for salvation, nor does it believe that the Holy Ghost is a benefit which comes after salvation. It has always believed that the New Birth and plan of salvation is what the Bible says: repentence, water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues.


I'm glad you've found an assembly to join.

David Bernard estimates that 85% of the brethren at the merger were solid on the Acts 2:38 new birth message. His logic in here:

https://www.facebook.com/davidkberna...tal_comments=3

You will notice he also recognizes what he calls the 2/3s or 2/3ers, these were brethren who still adhered to the old saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost doctrine. We have at least two of these men here in our district. They also baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost which is Jesus name! Heresy of heresies!!! I am not a world traveler like yourself so I can only say what I have heard. The districts that I have heard tend to have more of the 2/3ers are (I may not hit it perfect) Wisconsin, N. and S. Dakota, Idaho, some in the Carolinas, Texas, and I know of a couple in California. They do exist despite your omniscience.

I am not sure what you mean by the Romans 10 nonsense. Have you read that there is joy in heaven over one sinner who repents? Strange behavior I would say for somebody who is not saved, or at the very least we should recognize this as a major step. I am not saying I disbelieve the Acts 2:38 and new birth, I just don't think it is as cut and dry as many believe it to be. It is also that God left the Ethiopian eunuch unsaved by taking Phillip away in the Spirit before He received the HG baptism, and strange that Paul left the jailer unsaved by only baptizing him. I think salvation is more a relationship process than it is a specific event. And I believe this relationship process contains several events that are all important to the process, including repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pneuman

David Bernard estimates that 85% of the brethren at the merger were solid on the Acts 2:38 new birth message. His logic in here:

https://www.facebook.com/davidkberna...tal_comments=3

You will notice he also recognizes what he calls the 2/3s or 2/3ers, these were brethren who still adhered to the old saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost doctrine. We have at least two of these men here in our district. They also baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost which is Jesus name! Heresy of heresies!!! I am not a world traveler like yourself so I can only say what I have heard. The districts that I have heard tend to have more of the 2/3ers are (I may not hit it perfect) Wisconsin, N. and S. Dakota, Idaho, some in the Carolinas, Texas, and I know of a couple in California. They do exist despite your omniscience.

His reference to 2/3s was this: "David Gray said practically all the PAJC and 2/3 (two-thirds) (67%) of the PCI believed the new-birth doctrine..." It was used as a fraction, not a sort of a nickname.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

I am not sure what you mean by the Romans 10 nonsense.

Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

I do not believe confession is salvation. This is not what Peter preached at Pentecost, nor is it what the UPCI or other Apostolics believe.

This "Sinner's Prayer," just confess with your mouth and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and you're saved is nonsense. It's found nowhere in Acts of the Apostles.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

Have you read that there is joy in heaven over one sinner who repents? Strange behavior I would say for somebody who is not saved, or at the very least we should recognize this as a major step.

Please read the whole verse, the key is the comparison which it gives.

"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

On one hand, you have a sinner who recognizes the sin which is in him and he repents; On the other hand, you have ninety-nine self-righteous persons who feel no need of repentance. They feel they are justified in themselves.

This is why there is joy in heaven. Because the sinner recognized his need of repentance.

Yes, this is a major step, but salvation does not come at repentance alone.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

I am not saying I disbelieve the Acts 2:38 and new birth, I just don't think it is as cut and dry as many believe it to be.

It's pretty plain. Peter took a while to get there, but once he was asked what needed to be done, he wasted no words doing so.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

It is also that God left the Ethiopian eunuch unsaved by taking Phillip away in the Spirit before He received the HG baptism, and strange that Paul left the jailer unsaved by only baptizing him.

You're assuming too much here. Don't assume that because the Bible doesn't explicitly state they received the Holy Ghost that they didn't or were saved without.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

I think salvation is more a relationship process than it is a specific event. And I believe this relationship process contains several events that are all important to the process, including repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues.

This is a problem with modern christianity. The new birth is an event, which includes repentance, baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. It's not a long process. Nowhere in the Acts of the Apostles will you find anything which suggests a long process.