Shouting at NAYC

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ferd

well that's sound doctrine!

Im all for that. but lets not toss the baby out with the bathwater!

The bible also says BE STILL (quiet) and know that I am God"

There is a time and place for ALL THINGS.

When I teach on prayer, you better believe that I instruct Apostolics that prayer isn't ALL telling God stuff! if you don't spend time LISTENING you are not going anywhere.

BUT put STONEKINGs comments at NAYC in CONTEXT. He wasn't teaching. Those kids in general are REALLY GOOD at saying nothing. At being quiet at church. There is nothing wrong with teaching them that there is a time and place for a war shout.

I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around focusing on decibel levels. I can't quite see the Apostles preaching or focusing on that issue.

I don't mind the boisterous praise and the shout. I am also a participant. What I want us to be careful of is leaning too much on the element of making noise and not getting as excited when the scriptures are read. That is what brings me to my feet more than anything. I have seen young people shout, but not be made strong by it. Something appeared to be surface noise with no depth. That is all I fear the most - noise with no depth of commitment to God.

Pulled over to respond to your post. Better get back on the highway before a police officer thinks I am in trouble or waiting to pick up a stash of illegals. Lol

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't mind the boisterous praise and the shout. I am also a participant. What I want us to be careful of is leaning too much on the element of making noise and not getting as excited when the scriptures are read. That is what brings me to my feet more than anything.

I could agree we shouldn't focus solely on the noise of the shout. A Christian living just for the shout is as vulnerable as one who believes the prosperity doctrine. What happens when the shout is gone, or the trials come? What's the source of the shout?

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I have seen young people shout, but not be made strong by it. Something appeared to be surface noise with no depth. That is all I fear the most - noise with no depth of commitment to God.

Certainly there were those in the arena who match what you wrote. I've been in meetings like this in years gone by and was both once a bystander without depth of committment and, at other times, an ardent worshipper.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around focusing on decibel levels. I can't quite see the Apostles preaching or focusing on that issue.

I don't mind the boisterous praise and the shout. I am also a participant. What I want us to be careful of is leaning too much on the element of making noise and not getting as excited when the scriptures are read. That is what brings me to my feet more than anything. I have seen young people shout, but not be made strong by it. Something appeared to be surface noise with no depth. That is all I fear the most - noise with no depth of commitment to God.

Pulled over to respond to your post. Better get back on the highway before a police officer thinks I am in trouble or waiting to pick up a stash of illegals. Lol

2 Chron 13:15
Then the men of Judah raised a war cry, and when the men of Judah raised the war cry, then it was that God routed Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah and Judah.


There you go.

As ive started balance is always key. shouting will never be the whole answer.

I have taught over the years, one particular thing on one day, to the exclusion of other interconnected things, because that's what I needed to do.

We are taking in isolation one 5 minute period during a weekend conference where there were classes during the day and very long services with preaching every night of the conference.

and we are acting like this is what NAYC was? this 5 minutes? im sorry but really that's not being intellectually honest.

NAYC was not simply a yell practice. Our kids that went came home changed. We had kids go that were boarderline. they came home with a commitment I had not seen in them before.

That wasn't because for 5 minutes one night they got really really loud.

BUT I am glad they had that moment of experiencing a real War Shout. It is worthy. It is a good thing. it aint the only thing they need. It wont sustain them during the seasons when the heavens turn to brass and they feel no prayer reaches heaven. BUT it IS one of the things a child of God needs in their lives.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ferd

There is plenty of scripture related to raising ones voice to the lord in praise. In fact there is plenty of scripture that relates shouting to the Lord as a form of warfare. both physical and spiritual.
Joshua 6:20
So the people shouted, and priests blew the trumpets; and when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, the people shouted with a great shout and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight ahead, and they took the city.

2 Chron 13:15
Then the men of Judah raised a war cry, and when the men of Judah raised the war cry, then it was that God routed Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah and Judah.

Originally Posted by Ferd

Is 12:6
Cry aloud and shout for joy, O inhabitant of Zion, For great in your midst is the Holy One of Israel
Ps 47:1
O clap your hands, all peoples; Shout to God with the voice of joy.

Originally Posted by Ferd

In fact the Psalmist David enjoins ALL THE EARTH to raise its collective voices in praise to God.

He tells the sea to clap its hands, to raise its voice. He intones the people to shout "with the voice of many waters".

He instructs the mountains to speak out and to fall on their faces. David in fact states that if the people will not Praise God, the ROCKS WILL CRY OUT.

Originally Posted by Ferd

2 Chron 13:15
Then the men of Judah raised a war cry, and when the men of Judah raised the war cry, then it was that God routed Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah and Judah.

There you go.

As ive started balance is always key. shouting will never be the whole answer.

I have taught over the years, one particular thing on one day, to the exclusion of other interconnected things, because that's what I needed to do.

We are taking in isolation one 5 minute period during a weekend conference where there were classes during the day and very long services with preaching every night of the conference.

and we are acting like this is what NAYC was? this 5 minutes? im sorry but really that's not being intellectually honest.

NAYC was not simply a yell practice. Our kids that went came home changed. We had kids go that were boarderline. they came home with a commitment I had not seen in them before.

That wasn't because for 5 minutes one night they got really really loud.

BUT I am glad they had that moment of experiencing a real War Shout. It is worthy. It is a good thing. it aint the only thing they need. It wont sustain them during the seasons when the heavens turn to brass and they feel no prayer reaches heaven. BUT it IS one of the things a child of God needs in their lives.

I agree that balance is the key and that shouting will not be the whole answer. Again, I am a participant, so I am not against any form of worship that is decent and in order. You don't have a problem with me on that at all.

I highlighted your other posts because I am wondering why we find and quote the passages from the OT ONLY. What did the Apostles teach?

I see Peter sitting in Cornelius's home, explaining the Hebrew scriptures and the Holy Ghost falls and fills the people present. That is an awesome experience right there - the "scriptures" brought down the power of God.

We had the same experience in our church. Many came back changed and several children also experienced their parents being renewed and others receiving the Holy Ghost for the first time. So, again, we agree - "this 5 minutes" of decibel language wasn't the full impact.

Originally Posted by Ferd

it aint the only thing they need. It wont sustain them during the seasons when the heavens turn to brass and they feel no prayer reaches heaven. BUT it IS one of the things a child of God needs in their lives.

If we teach this to them upon returning than we have done a great job.

I deleted the rest of what I really wanted to say. Because there are a lot of things to take into account and this forum is not the place to do that properly.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I agree that balance is the key and that shouting will not be the whole answer. Again, I am a participant, so I am not against any form of worship that is decent and in order. You don't have a problem with me on that at all.

I highlighted your other posts because I am wondering why we find and quote the passages from the OT ONLY. What did the Apostles teach?

I see Peter sitting in Cornelius's home, explaining the Hebrew scriptures and the Holy Ghost falls and fills the people present. That is an awesome experience right there - the "scriptures" brought down the power of God.

We had the same experience in our church. Many came back changed and several children also experienced their parents being renewed and others receiving the Holy Ghost for the first time. So, again, we agree - "this 5 minutes" of decibel language wasn't the full impact.



If we teach this to them upon returning than we have done a great job.

I deleted the rest of what I really wanted to say. Because there are a lot of things to take into account and this forum is not the place to do that properly.

I suspect we are not very far apart... maybe stressing different areas... im just challenging some blog that claims to be Apostolic and yet finds a fun way to bash Apostolics. im fairly intolerant of such...

let me just say that there is a whole church... the Church of Christ that doesn't have music because they cannot find music in the New Testament.

I do remember that Paul and Silas were up at midmight singing and worshiping God when God sent an earthquake.

I remember that when they showed up at the home the folk inside were praying and hardly had time for them.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I suspect we are not very far apart... maybe stressing different areas... im just challenging some blog that claims to be Apostolic and yet finds a fun way to bash Apostolics. im fairly intolerant of such...

let me just say that there is a whole church... the Church of Christ that doesn't have music because they cannot find music in the New Testament.

I do remember that Paul and Silas were up at midmight singing and worshiping God when God sent an earthquake.

I remember that when they showed up at the home the folk inside were praying and hardly had time for them.

But, their focus wasn't how how loud they could get. It was on their faith in what they believed.

Paul: Silas you ain't loud enough. We aren't going to get out of here unless we make some waves of high decibel sound transmigrating that barrier.

Silas: Oh, okay. Let's get louder.

Did they think like that? No, I would say they didn't. Why even go there is my question?

I am sure that we are not far apart on our view.

I don't, generally, enter praise at the top of my lungs. I begin and allow God to take that where ever He wants it to go. If it ends in a shout - great. I don't ever, again, want to hear someone tell me to prove my relationship with God by my shout.

My main point of view, which will never change, is that I want to talk about my "faith" that moves mountains, and not about how loud I can get in a service. This "decibel" wording just set off something that has always bugged me.

You know how you hear a message and want to borrow elements? The "decibel" language isn't one of those examples.

Anyway, I stand solely on - If your praise doesn't lead you into obedience to Jesus Christ, you are simply making noise.

I could get into other pet peeves - "Father God" and "Comfort Zone".