Your tithes were already paid.

Originalist · #1 10-12-2015, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pliny

I appreciate the thoughtful response. I believe tithing is mandatory for the NT. I do agree that Hebrews is dealing with the supremacy if Christ's priesthood.

IMO tithing predates the Law. Although there is no specific reference as to when it started it is obvious that the origin is extremely ancient. When Abraham gave tithes there is no discussion. It is as if it was mentioned in passing. It just happens. Who taught him? WHy did he feel compelled to do so? Ancient custom? Who taught them? It is known that tithing was a principle most, if not all, major cultures practiced as far back in history as we can go. The Ebla tablets speak of it. These are the oldest known documents found I believe. So no matter how far back we go tithing was well established. IMO it was a principle given by God although it is not recorded when. This would explain the common legacy across all cultures and religions. Tithing always went to deities of some kind. Although, it is possible that some kings to tithes as well. I believe the story of Cain and Able reflect tithing. I cannot prove it but it is not without evidence either. It is an educated guess and something I tend to believe.

Take Care

This is when it was codified. The NT was not codified for centuries either. Tithing predates the Law and unless it can be pointed to a specific time when it was rescinded there is no reason to believe it has been. Just my 2 cents worth.

BTW thank you for the documentation. But I was speaking of when did tithing originate in earth? If we cannot identify the beginning and there is no specific stated ending then it is safer to accept that it is still in force. The argument that it was only under the Law is a fallacious argument because it was well established centuries before the Law.

Take Care

Thanks for your post.

A couple of questions....

1) Where is it recorded that God commanded anyone to tithe prior to the Law?

2) Who did Abraham tithe to after he tithed the first time?

3) Without a clear mandate from God in recorded scripture prior to the Law, and without any admonition to do so by the apostles, by what authority can I as a minister teach tithing as mandatory for the New Testament? What hermeneutical model do I turn to?

Pliny · #2 10-12-2015, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Thanks for your post.

A couple of questions....

1) Where is it recorded that God commanded anyone to tithe prior to the Law?

2) Who did Abraham tithe to after he tithed the first time?

3) Without a clear mandate from God in recorded scripture prior to the Law, and without any admonition to do so by the apostles, by what authority can I as a minister teach tithing as mandatory for the New Testament? What hermeneutical model do I turn to?

1) There is not a direct command - thou shalt. There is however a principle of God setting a portion aside as his. The tree of knowledge. There was nothing wrong with it. It was simply His. Also, I think I mentioned above that Cain and Able - IMO - is about tithing.

My opinion is that with all the ancient cultures tithing - literally 10% - to their deities it points to a common source. That source is God. Abraham did so because it was well established, why? It is logical to me that God instituted it even though we don't have a specific thou shalt.

2) We don't know. I cannot say her did and you cannot say he didn't. The scripture is silent.

3) The hermeneutical model is the historical grammatical method of interpretation. Scripture was not written in a vacuum. For me I look at the historical context. Tithing was well established by the time of Abraham. Scripture seems to assume everyone understands why Abraham gave tithes because there is no explanation. Why? Most if not all major cultures in the ancient world taught tithing to their deities. Why? It was ALWAYS 10%. Not 5% or 11% but ALWAYS 10%. Why? There must be a common denominator somewhere. Just like the ancient flood stories. The actual source has been lost to the ravages of time. No one knows the specific answer. IMO Cain and Able was about tithing. I see the principle at work in the Garden.

Since tithing was established prior to the Law it could not be destroyed by the Law. Besides Jeremiah says:
(Jer 31:31 KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(Jer 31:32 KJV) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
(Jer 31:33 KJV) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

If the Law was done away with what is written upon the hearts?

I don't have time to deal with this as I am very busy but I will try to answer the NT as follows.
The Apostles did speak about pastoral salary
(1Ti 5:17 KJV) Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Look up the word honor.

Then consider this verse:
(1Ti 5:18 KJV) For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

There is a direct connection to OT Levitical tithing.

Then there is this:
(1Co 9:4 KJV) Have we not power to eat and to drink?
(1Co 9:5 KJV) Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

(1Co 9:7 KJV) Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
(1Co 9:8 KJV) Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
(1Co 9:9 KJV) For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
(1Co 9:10 KJV) Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
(1Co 9:11 KJV) If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

I could go on and on. I could even cite the ANF but I don't see the point and I don't have the time.

People will make up their own minds. I just hope I have given folks things to consider before NOT giving tithes. We will all stand before God on our own.

Take Care

Edited to ADD:
Where did the Apostles say tithing ceased?

deacon blues · #3 10-12-2015, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pliny

1) There is not a direct command - thou shalt. There is however a principle of God setting a portion aside as his. The tree of knowledge. There was nothing wrong with it. It was simply His. Also, I think I mentioned above that Cain and Able - IMO - is about tithing.

My opinion is that with all the ancient cultures tithing - literally 10% - to their deities it points to a common source. That source is God. Abraham did so because it was well established, why? It is logical to me that God instituted it even though we don't have a specific thou shalt.

2) We don't know. I cannot say her did and you cannot say he didn't. The scripture is silent.

3) The hermeneutical model is the historical grammatical method of interpretation. Scripture was not written in a vacuum. For me I look at the historical context. Tithing was well established by the time of Abraham. Scripture seems to assume everyone understands why Abraham gave tithes because there is no explanation. Why? Most if not all major cultures in the ancient world taught tithing to their deities. Why? It was ALWAYS 10%. Not 5% or 11% but ALWAYS 10%. Why? There must be a common denominator somewhere. Just like the ancient flood stories. The actual source has been lost to the ravages of time. No one knows the specific answer. IMO Cain and Able was about tithing. I see the principle at work in the Garden.

Since tithing was established prior to the Law it could not be destroyed by the Law. Besides Jeremiah says:
(Jer 31:31 KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(Jer 31:32 KJV) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
(Jer 31:33 KJV) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

If the Law was done away with what is written upon the hearts?

I don't have time to deal with this as I am very busy but I will try to answer the NT as follows.
The Apostles did speak about pastoral salary
(1Ti 5:17 KJV) Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Look up the word honor.

Then consider this verse:
(1Ti 5:18 KJV) For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

There is a direct connection to OT Levitical tithing.

Then there is this:
(1Co 9:4 KJV) Have we not power to eat and to drink?
(1Co 9:5 KJV) Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

(1Co 9:7 KJV) Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
(1Co 9:8 KJV) Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
(1Co 9:9 KJV) For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
(1Co 9:10 KJV) Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
(1Co 9:11 KJV) If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

I could go on and on. I could even cite the ANF but I don't see the point and I don't have the time.

People will make up their own minds. I just hope I have given folks things to consider before NOT giving tithes. We will all stand before God on our own.

Take Care

Edited to ADD:
Where did the Apostles say tithing ceased?

AWESOME point about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil! Really profound truth. From the very beginning God was saying "most of what is given to you is yours to do with as you please---but you can't have this one thing." Excellent.