Your tithes were already paid.

[good samaritan]

I think there is enough talk of tithing to establish somewhat of a principle in it, but it should be left to personal choice. The fact that it doesn't explain all the details, doesn't prove or disprove the regularity of their tithing nor the methods (in regards to Abe and Jake) . Interesting thought, it takes more study to disprove tithing than to prove it. I never in depth studied tithing until recent years.

I always just believed as I was taught and took the scripture for tithing at face value and practiced it. It is not until you begin to analyze and study things that you begin to realize the who, what, where and when of things. I have read no where that tithing was practiced in the church only giving. I dare to say although tithing wasn't mentioned, there was many that tithed IMO.

I agree with you though.

I recently taught to our church that tithing isn't mandatory, but is a good method of giving. People where a little off struck by the teaching. For many Christians it is plain and simple, you must tithe. I want people to come out of legalism and into a life of good works done by the leading of the Holy Ghost. It is truly a matter of the heart.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I think there is enough talk of tithing to establish somewhat of a principle in it, but it should be left to personal choice. The fact that it doesn't explain all the details, doesn't prove or disprove the regularity of their tithing nor the methods (in regards to Abe and Jake) . Interesting thought, it takes more study to disprove tithing than to prove it. I never in depth studied tithing until recent years.

I always just believed as I was taught and took the scripture for tithing at face value and practiced it. It is not until you begin to analyze and study things that you begin to realize the who, what, where and when of things. I have read no where that tithing was practiced in the church only giving. I dare to say although tithing wasn't mentioned, there was many that tithed IMO.

I agree with you though.

I recently taught to our church that tithing isn't mandatory, but is a good method of giving. People where a little off struck by the teaching. For many Christians it is plain and simple, you must tithe. I want people to come out of legalism and into a life of good works done by the leading of the Holy Ghost. It is truly a matter of the heart.

Oh my!!! Do you belong to an org?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I assemble with the Body of Christ in corporate worship regularly. I do not subscribe to the system commonly labeled as "church". But what philosophy on corporate worship I subscribe to is irrelevant to the points raised in the previous post. The tithing doctrine you teach must stand or fall on its own merits. Either it withstands the scrutiny of scriptural interpretation or it does not.

This tells me all I need to know.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Brothers, if we don't tithe, if we don't faithfully fund our local ministering points, then they will not be effective tools in reaching the lost with the Gospel.

Furthermore, if we don't tithe, if we don't faithfully fund our local preaching points, then surely we won't financially support the Pastors, preachers, evangelists, and missionaries.

It all starts with the church, as in the local assembly of believers.

Catholics don't mandate tithing. J.W. don't either. They seem to do just fine.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Are you aware that not everyone tithed?

Also, worked after the law?? When?

If I don't tithe therefore my heart is about money?

Money is a test from God. He doesn't need it. He owns it all anyway. It's a test of where your heart is. You need to put Him first. The first always belongs to God. The firstborn. The firstfruits. Every person and animal that was firstborn belonged to God. He said all clean animals that were firstborn were to be sacrificed. The unclean firstborn had to be redeemed with the sacrifice of a clean animal. Firstborn children had to have an animal sacrificed for them in order to be redeemed. Everything was either sacrificed or redeemed. It was a type and shadow of Jesus. He was God's firstborn. We were unclean. Jesus was sacrificed for us to redeem us. Jesus was God's tithe. God doesn't ask of us what He isn't willing to do Himself. God put us first. He asks us to put Him first. It's not hard to understand when you understand what he Scriptures teach.

Rudy, do you attend a specific local assembly weekly?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Tithes has been a practice by probably many other religious groups outside of Christianity. I personally believe that the practice of tithing did originate by the design of God and does demonstrate trust and worship. Many may have manipulated it for personal gain, but I do believe that it has been a very old practice that predates the law.

The scripture in Hebrews has nothing to do with mandating tithing on the Church. Instead it teaches that the priesthood of Melchizedek was greater than that of Levi. Even Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek through Abraham. Melchizedek is a type of Christ. Hence, Jesus is the great high priest far above the Levitical priesthood. The point of the passages where not to promote tithing, but instead to promote Jesus.

I am supportive of tithing, but we must be honest and open minded that it is never mandated post to Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. Making tithing mandatory is like Sabbath observance. It is not a bad thing, but we must know that it has no bearing on our salvation.

I don't believe it has anything to do with salvation. I do believe it has everything to do with whether we have the blessings of God on our lives or
not.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Brothers, if we don't tithe, if we don't faithfully fund our local ministering points, then they will not be effective tools in reaching the lost with the Gospel.

Furthermore, if we don't tithe, if we don't faithfully fund our local preaching points, then surely we won't financially support the Pastors, preachers, evangelists, and missionaries.

It all starts with the church, as in the local assembly of believers.

On this we agree JD.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Thanks for your post.

A couple of questions....

1) Where is it recorded that God commanded anyone to tithe prior to the Law?

2) Who did Abraham tithe to after he tithed the first time?

3) Without a clear mandate from God in recorded scripture prior to the Law, and without any admonition to do so by the apostles, by what authority can I as a minister teach tithing as mandatory for the New Testament? What hermeneutical model do I turn to?

1) There is not a direct command - thou shalt. There is however a principle of God setting a portion aside as his. The tree of knowledge. There was nothing wrong with it. It was simply His. Also, I think I mentioned above that Cain and Able - IMO - is about tithing.

My opinion is that with all the ancient cultures tithing - literally 10% - to their deities it points to a common source. That source is God. Abraham did so because it was well established, why? It is logical to me that God instituted it even though we don't have a specific thou shalt.

2) We don't know. I cannot say her did and you cannot say he didn't. The scripture is silent.

3) The hermeneutical model is the historical grammatical method of interpretation. Scripture was not written in a vacuum. For me I look at the historical context. Tithing was well established by the time of Abraham. Scripture seems to assume everyone understands why Abraham gave tithes because there is no explanation. Why? Most if not all major cultures in the ancient world taught tithing to their deities. Why? It was ALWAYS 10%. Not 5% or 11% but ALWAYS 10%. Why? There must be a common denominator somewhere. Just like the ancient flood stories. The actual source has been lost to the ravages of time. No one knows the specific answer. IMO Cain and Able was about tithing. I see the principle at work in the Garden.

Since tithing was established prior to the Law it could not be destroyed by the Law. Besides Jeremiah says:
(Jer 31:31 KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(Jer 31:32 KJV) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
(Jer 31:33 KJV) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


If the Law was done away with what is written upon the hearts?

I don't have time to deal with this as I am very busy but I will try to answer the NT as follows.
The Apostles did speak about pastoral salary
(1Ti 5:17 KJV) Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Look up the word honor.

Then consider this verse:
(1Ti 5:18 KJV) For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

There is a direct connection to OT Levitical tithing.

Then there is this:
(1Co 9:4 KJV) Have we not power to eat and to drink?
(1Co 9:5 KJV) Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

(1Co 9:7 KJV) Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
(1Co 9:8 KJV) Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
(1Co 9:9 KJV) For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
(1Co 9:10 KJV) Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
(1Co 9:11 KJV) If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?


I could go on and on. I could even cite the ANF but I don't see the point and I don't have the time.

People will make up their own minds. I just hope I have given folks things to consider before NOT giving tithes. We will all stand before God on our own.

Take Care


Edited to ADD:
Where did the Apostles say tithing ceased?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Pliny

I appreciate the thoughtful response. I believe tithing is mandatory for the NT. I do agree that Hebrews is dealing with the supremacy if Christ's priesthood.

IMO tithing predates the Law. Although there is no specific reference as to when it started it is obvious that the origin is extremely ancient. When Abraham gave tithes there is no discussion. It is as if it was mentioned in passing. It just happens. Who taught him? WHy did he feel compelled to do so? Ancient custom? Who taught them? It is known that tithing was a principle most, if not all, major cultures practiced as far back in history as we can go. The Ebla tablets speak of it. These are the oldest known documents found I believe. So no matter how far back we go tithing was well established. IMO it was a principle given by God although it is not recorded when. This would explain the common legacy across all cultures and religions. Tithing always went to deities of some kind. Although, it is possible that some kings to tithes as well. I believe the story of Cain and Able reflect tithing. I cannot prove it but it is not without evidence either. It is an educated guess and something I tend to believe.

Take Care





This is when it was codified. The NT was not codified for centuries either. Tithing predates the Law and unless it can be pointed to a specific time when it was rescinded there is no reason to believe it has been. Just my 2 cents worth.

BTW thank you for the documentation. But I was speaking of when did tithing originate in earth? If we cannot identify the beginning and there is no specific stated ending then it is safer to accept that it is still in force. The argument that it was only under the Law is a fallacious argument because it was well established centuries before the Law.

Take Care

You ARE CORRECT! The story of Cain and Abel contains the tithe!

Genesis 4:3-5 (NIV)
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Abel gave the FIRSTBORN of his flocks. "In the course of time" Cain brought an offering to God. In other words, Cain WAITED TO SEE IF HE COULD AFFORD TO GIVE to God. See, it's not just about 10%. It's about giving God FIRST. Give the firstborn of your flocks. Don't wait to see if your sheep will produce other offspring, THEN give. No you give to God FIRST, then live on the rest. It's an act of faith and trust in God. You give of your crops FIRST, not wait to see if you have plenty of harvest THEN give. NO! Give to God FIRST, and He will bless what is left. Take care of yourself first, and your finances will be cursed.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I

You ARE CORRECT! The story of Cain and Abel contains the tithe!

Genesis 4:3-5 (NIV)
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Abel gave the FIRSTBORN of his flocks. "In the course of time" Cain brought an offering to God. In other words, Cain WAITED TO SEE IF HE COULD AFFORD TO GIVE to God. See, it's not just about 10%. It's about giving God FIRST. Give the firstborn of your flocks. Don't wait to see if your sheepnwi produce other offspring, THEN give. No you give to God FIRST, then love in the rest. It's an act of faith and trust in God. You give of your crops FIRST, not wait to see of your have plenty of hardest THEN give. NO! Give to God FIRST, and He will bless what is left. Take care of yourself first, and your finances will be cursed.

I would suggest reading the Septuagint as well. It is interesting.