Your tithes were already paid.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What is currency? Non edible object used in exchange for goods or services (as paper, coin, etc).

If I trade you a 1 ounce gold ring for, say, a cow, I just bought the cow with gold. It wouldn't matter if the gold was in the form of a flat disk with Caesar's inscription on it or if it was in the form of a size 3 wedding ring with no diamond from Zale's.

I think your attempting to discount the use of gold, silver, precious metals, etc in the old testament as money is far fetched and stretching things.

In Deuteronomy 14 I believe it says people who could not carry oxen, sheep, produce etc to Jerusalem were to sell the products for MONEY and then upon arrival in Jerusalem they were to use the MONEY to BUY oxen, produce, wine, etc and pay their tithe WITH THAT (by eating it, in fact, along with Levites, strangers, widows, and orphans).

So the apparent claim that money in Genesis or the OT in general is irrelevant is, well, irrelevant. Things were used as currency, that is, non edible items were used as a medium of exchange for edible foodstuffs.

Gold has been money since the beginning of recorded history. Everyone outside the CNN crowd knows that.

Thank you for your opinion. I disagree.

Currency is FAR different from bartering with weights and precious metals and jewels.
Currency, as it is known today, did not exist until around 600 BC.
Based upon this polemic there was never a need for the innovation known as currency.
Necessity IS the mother of invention.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Thank you for your opinion. I disagree.

Currency is FAR different from bartering with weights and precious metals and jewels.
Currency, as it is known today, did not exist until around 600 BC.
Based upon this polemic there was never a need for the innovation known as currency.
Necessity IS the mother of invention.

From Webster's 1828:
currency

CURRENCY, n. [See Current.]

1. Literally, flowing, running or passing; a continued or uninterrupted course, like that of a stream; as the currency of time.
2. A continued course in public opinion, belief or reception; a passing from person to person, or from age to age; a, a report has had a long or general currency.
3. A continual passing from hand to hand, as coin or bills of credit; circulation; as the currency of cents, or of English crowns; the currency of bank bills or treasury notes.
4. Fluency; readiness of utterance; but in this sense we generally use fluency.
5. General estimation; the rate at which any thing is generally valued.
He takes greatness of kingdoms according to their bulk and currency, and not after intrinsic value.
6. That which is current or in circulation, as a medium of trade. The word may be applied to coins, or to bills issued by authority. It is often applied to bank notes, and to notes issued by government.

Let us assume for the moment that you are correct, that 'currency' did not exist prior to 600 BC. If that were true, then the tithe does not respect currency, since the Law was given almost 1000 years prior to the invention of 'currency'. Therefore, nobody is or can be required to pay tithes of 'currency', such as cash, coin, check, or electronic funds transfer or direct deposit, credit accounts, stocks, bonds, bearrer bonds, bank drafts, bank notes, promissory notes, etc.

Thank you for making our point.

Now, as for the rest of your post, you said that based upon my argument, there was never a need for the invention of currency. I am amazed you would say such a thing. Surely you are smarter than that. Who wants to carry gold nuggets, when they can carry a gold coin, with a government's seal of authenticity and guarantee of value and actual metallic content and purity? And who wants to carry gold coins when they carry slips of paper equivalent in exchange? And who wants to carry slips of paper when they carry a plastic card? And who wants to carry a plastic card when they could just scan their iris, fingerprints, palm print, or do a DNA sample, or retinal scan, or face print? (Or scan an implanted biochip? lol)

Gold and silver, jewels, nuggets, rocks (diamonds, rubies, etc), rings, crowns, shields, etc etc etc were used in barter. Barter means trading one thing for another. If I trade or barter with you for something, and what you give me is something I can for example eat or wipe my behind with, and what I give you is something you can trade or barter for something you can actually directly use, consume, eat, wipe, or whatever, then I gave you MONEY or it's direct equivalent - a means of exchange.

Something that has EQUIVALENT value to an end-use product or service.

But hey lookie here:

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

Wow, who'd a thunk it? When the law of the tithe was given, they had MONEY! Imagine that!

The Greek renders that word 'money' as arguriou, which is defined by my Greek Dictionary as 'CASH'. The Hebrew means 'silver', that is, money. Folks were to sell their tithe, for CASH (actually, SILVER), and once in Jerusalem they were to use that CASH (silver money) to BUY stuff to eat and drink, and they themselves were to EAT the TITHE, along with the Levite.

Why is this not taught as part of the modern 'tithe' doctrine?

Because the modern 'tithe' doctrine is simply not found in the Bible.

If it was, it would have been spelled out, 'thus saith the LORD', chapter and verse. Instead, vague allusions mentioning the word tithe, or mentioning giving, are supplied, with no dEFINITIONS or EXPLANATIONS FROM SCRIPTURE as to WHAT, HOW, WHEN, WHERE, from WHOM and to WHOM, etc.

Ergo, the modern 'tithe' doctrine is a recent, unbiblical invention of men.

Which by the way, I PROVED in a previous post in this thread (that it was INVENTED in the late 19th century) and which was left untouched by any rebuttal.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Esaias

.

Which by the way, I PROVED in a previous post in this thread (that it was INVENTED in the late 19th century) and which was left untouched by any rebuttal.

That's because some of the stuff you say, doesn't require rebuttal but only a stare and a blink blink blink and then a slight chuckle.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Esaias

From Webster's 1828:
currency

CURRENCY, n. [See Current.]

1. Literally, flowing, running or passing; a continued or uninterrupted course, like that of a stream; as the currency of time.
2. A continued course in public opinion, belief or reception; a passing from person to person, or from age to age; a, a report has had a long or general currency.
3. A continual passing from hand to hand, as coin or bills of credit; circulation; as the currency of cents, or of English crowns; the currency of bank bills or treasury notes.
4. Fluency; readiness of utterance; but in this sense we generally use fluency.
5. General estimation; the rate at which any thing is generally valued.
He takes greatness of kingdoms according to their bulk and currency, and not after intrinsic value.
6. That which is current or in circulation, as a medium of trade. The word may be applied to coins, or to bills issued by authority. It is often applied to bank notes, and to notes issued by government.

Let us assume for the moment that you are correct, that 'currency' did not exist prior to 600 BC. If that were true, then the tithe does not respect currency, since the Law was given almost 1000 years prior to the invention of 'currency'. Therefore, nobody is or can be required to pay tithes of 'currency', such as cash, coin, check, or electronic funds transfer or direct deposit, credit accounts, stocks, bonds, bearrer bonds, bank drafts, bank notes, promissory notes, etc.

Thank you for making our point.

Now, as for the rest of your post, you said that based upon my argument, there was never a need for the invention of currency. I am amazed you would say such a thing. Surely you are smarter than that. Who wants to carry gold nuggets, when they can carry a gold coin, with a government's seal of authenticity and guarantee of value and actual metallic content and purity? And who wants to carry gold coins when they carry slips of paper equivalent in exchange? And who wants to carry slips of paper when they carry a plastic card? And who wants to carry a plastic card when they could just scan their iris, fingerprints, palm print, or do a DNA sample, or retinal scan, or face print? (Or scan an implanted biochip? lol)

Gold and silver, jewels, nuggets, rocks (diamonds, rubies, etc), rings, crowns, shields, etc etc etc were used in barter. Barter means trading one thing for another. If I trade or barter with you for something, and what you give me is something I can for example eat or wipe my behind with, and what I give you is something you can trade or barter for something you can actually directly use, consume, eat, wipe, or whatever, then I gave you MONEY or it's direct equivalent - a means of exchange.

Something that has EQUIVALENT value to an end-use product or service.

But hey lookie here:

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

Wow, who'd a thunk it? When the law of the tithe was given, they had MONEY! Imagine that!

The Greek renders that word 'money' as arguriou, which is defined by my Greek Dictionary as 'CASH'. The Hebrew means 'silver', that is, money. Folks were to sell their tithe, for CASH (actually, SILVER), and once in Jerusalem they were to use that CASH (silver money) to BUY stuff to eat and drink, and they themselves were to EAT the TITHE, along with the Levite.

Why is this not taught as part of the modern 'tithe' doctrine?

Because the modern 'tithe' doctrine is simply not found in the Bible.

If it was, it would have been spelled out, 'thus saith the LORD', chapter and verse. Instead, vague allusions mentioning the word tithe, or mentioning giving, are supplied, with no dEFINITIONS or EXPLANATIONS FROM SCRIPTURE as to WHAT, HOW, WHEN, WHERE, from WHOM and to WHOM, etc.

Ergo, the modern 'tithe' doctrine is a recent, unbiblical invention of men.

Which by the way, I PROVED in a previous post in this thread (that it was INVENTED in the late 19th century) and which was left untouched by any rebuttal.

Coins and Currency
In 600 B.C., Lydia's King Alyattes minted the first official currency. The coins were made from electrum, a mixture of silver and gold that occurs naturally, and stamped with pictures that acted as denominations. In the streets of Sardis, circa 600 B.C., a clay jar might cost you two owls and a snake. Lydia's currency helped the country increase both its internal and external trade, making it one of the richest empires in Asia Minor. It is interesting that when someone says, "as rich as Croesus", they are referring to the last Lydian king who minted the first gold coin.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...s_of_money.asp


I see you cannot answer the questions I asked either...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Coins and Currency
In 600 B.C., Lydia's King Alyattes minted the first official currency. The coins were made from electrum, a mixture of silver and gold that occurs naturally, and stamped with pictures that acted as denominations. In the streets of Sardis, circa 600 B.C., a clay jar might cost you two owls and a snake. Lydia's currency helped the country increase both its internal and external trade, making it one of the richest empires in Asia Minor. It is interesting that when someone says, "as rich as Croesus", they are referring to the last Lydian king who minted the first gold coin.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...s_of_money.asp


I see you cannot answer the questions I asked either...

Ah, so I guess Investopedia is right and the Holy Bible is wrong? I gave you the scripture showing the relationship between money and tithe. I see you ignored that.

As for the questions you asked, I didn't see any questions?

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ah, so I guess Investopedia is right and the Holy Bible is wrong? I gave you the scripture showing the relationship between money and tithe. I see you ignored that.

As for the questions you asked, I didn't see any questions?

Facts are stubborn things. You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.

It is a Historical archaeological FACT that currency as we know it did not exist until about 600 years before Christ.

The "scripture" you gave was a translation to help people who cannot read Hebrew.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Facts are stubborn things. You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.

It is a Historical archaeological FACT that currency as we know it did not exist until about 600 years before Christ.

The "scripture" you gave was a translation to help people who cannot read Hebrew.

Really? You are really going there?

Okie dokie.

Please show me how the scripture I quoted does not have to do with money.

Please show how Strong's Greek Dictionary is in error.

I wait with baited breath.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Really? You are really going there?

Okie dokie.

Please show me how the scripture I quoted does not have to do with money.

Please show how Strong's Greek Dictionary is in error.

I wait with baited breath.

Perhaps this will help:

http://www.ada.org/en/science-resear...ion/toothpaste