Your tithes were already paid.

[returnman]

General Tithe
Goes to support the ministry.
Paul said (paraphrased) he works for their spiritual good therefore he should receive of their carnal things. He references the OT and states that the ox is not muzzled. In another passage it is said that the church leaders are worthy of double pay (honor).

I copied the above from a post. I rarely saw this to be the case in almost 30 years in and around oneness circles. If money was dispersed to a ministry other than the Pastor, it was done so at his discretion since he was the recipient of 100% of tithe. The correct application was rare regardless.

Of course the reference to "he" is that that is the only form of ministry being talked about. All other ministry's are for free.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pliny

I will try to get to this some time this week. I am very busy and I am sure you are as well. Since I am here and have but a couple moments I will ask this:
You have stated that money is used in the text of Genesis 32 times. The term used is a translation.

The term "money" for example is the Hebrew word keseph.
According to BDB
BDB Definition:
1) silver, money
1a) silver
1a1) as metal
1a2) as ornament
1a3) as colour
1b) money, shekels, talents

Also in Genesis it states: (Gen 43:21 KJV) And it came to pass, when we came to the inn, that we opened our sacks, and, behold, every man's money was in the mouth of his sack, our money in full weight: and we have brought it again in our hand.

The "money" was not currency. It was precious metals that was weighed out in bartering. Currency, as is known in the 21st century was not in existence until the end of the OT. The Bible was not written in a vacuum as you well know. It was written in a historical context. The context of money then is not even close to today.

BTW there is no need for you to get testy with me. I have been respectful of you.
(Your man-made description is irrelevant to me)

Abraham did not practice child sacrifice, temple prostitution or sodomy. Therein lies the difference. He did practice tithing.

What is currency? Non edible object used in exchange for goods or services (as paper, coin, etc).

If I trade you a 1 ounce gold ring for, say, a cow, I just bought the cow with gold. It wouldn't matter if the gold was in the form of a flat disk with Caesar's inscription on it or if it was in the form of a size 3 wedding ring with no diamond from Zale's.

I think your attempting to discount the use of gold, silver, precious metals, etc in the old testament as money is far fetched and stretching things.

In Deuteronomy 14 I believe it says people who could not carry oxen, sheep, produce etc to Jerusalem were to sell the products for MONEY and then upon arrival in Jerusalem they were to use the MONEY to BUY oxen, produce, wine, etc and pay their tithe WITH THAT (by eating it, in fact, along with Levites, strangers, widows, and orphans).

So the apparent claim that money in Genesis or the OT in general is irrelevant is, well, irrelevant. Things were used as currency, that is, non edible items were used as a medium of exchange for edible foodstuffs.

Gold has been money since the beginning of recorded history. Everyone outside the CNN crowd knows that.

[Esaias]

Will somebody just show from Scripture where God commanded tithes from people on their assets or their mnetary income/wealth? AS in, So and So received a day's wage and paid a tithe on it?

BTW, wages under the law were supposed to be paid daily. How was tithing supposed to be done then, daily?

Where is the scripture for all this tithe teaching? Why is it so hard to just come up with the written Word on the subject? Is it because there is no written word that describes or endorses the modern 'tithe' teaching? Is it because the Biblical tithe is far different from the modern 'tithe' teaching?

As far as I can see, IF tithing is required under the new covenant, then in order to be Biblical and stay in the Book, I would need to do the following: Identify ten percent of any cattle or garden produce (increase) and pay it once a year to the local elders.

How many pastors want cattle and produce for a tithe? Or do they really just want the cash, check, or credit card?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

By what do you mean, "will it matter to the tithers?" Are you suggesting that they quit tithing, or do you mean that they should change their motivation? If you preach this non tithing to cause people to quit or decrease their commitment to supporting their churches then that is totally wrong. I see the opposition to tithing as a legality, but I still desire to minimally support my church with tithing and offerings. It is not about legalities, I have loved my church family every where that God has placed through the years.

Isn't tithing an obligatory gift of 10%

Or is there some other meaning I do not know?

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What is currency? Non edible object used in exchange for goods or services (as paper, coin, etc).

If I trade you a 1 ounce gold ring for, say, a cow, I just bought the cow with gold. It wouldn't matter if the gold was in the form of a flat disk with Caesar's inscription on it or if it was in the form of a size 3 wedding ring with no diamond from Zale's.

I think your attempting to discount the use of gold, silver, precious metals, etc in the old testament as money is far fetched and stretching things.

In Deuteronomy 14 I believe it says people who could not carry oxen, sheep, produce etc to Jerusalem were to sell the products for MONEY and then upon arrival in Jerusalem they were to use the MONEY to BUY oxen, produce, wine, etc and pay their tithe WITH THAT (by eating it, in fact, along with Levites, strangers, widows, and orphans).

So the apparent claim that money in Genesis or the OT in general is irrelevant is, well, irrelevant. Things were used as currency, that is, non edible items were used as a medium of exchange for edible foodstuffs.

Gold has been money since the beginning of recorded history. Everyone outside the CNN crowd knows that.

Thank you for your opinion. I disagree.

Currency is FAR different from bartering with weights and precious metals and jewels.
Currency, as it is known today, did not exist until around 600 BC.
Based upon this polemic there was never a need for the innovation known as currency.
Necessity IS the mother of invention.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Will somebody just show from Scripture where God commanded tithes from people on their assets or their mnetary income/wealth? AS in, So and So received a day's wage and paid a tithe on it?

BTW, wages under the law were supposed to be paid daily. How was tithing supposed to be done then, daily?

Where is the scripture for all this tithe teaching? Why is it so hard to just come up with the written Word on the subject? Is it because there is no written word that describes or endorses the modern 'tithe' teaching? Is it because the Biblical tithe is far different from the modern 'tithe' teaching?

As far as I can see, IF tithing is required under the new covenant, then in order to be Biblical and stay in the Book, I would need to do the following: Identify ten percent of any cattle or garden produce (increase) and pay it once a year to the local elders.

How many pastors want cattle and produce for a tithe? Or do they really just want the cash, check, or credit card?

The same old drumbeat...

Abraham gave a tenth of ALL. It is hard to believe someone would plunder a city and leave the gold and silver behind.Thus, Abraham gave of gold ad silver and everything precious.

Jacob promised a tenth of ALL.

So I will ask once again give me a SPECIFIC verse where ANYONE said tithing ceased.
Why is it so hard to just come up with the written Word on this subject?
is is because no written word exists the modern attack on tithing?
Is it because the Biblical tithe is different from the nay sayers?


Thank you.


BTW I will let you buy me a steak anytime.

[Sean]

Does that mean you want a tenth of(all) my house, car, etc?

Or will cash do just fine?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Pliny

The same old drumbeat...

Abraham gave a tenth of ALL. It is hard to believe someone would plunder a city and leave the gold and silver behind.Thus, Abraham gave of gold ad silver and everything precious.

Jacob promised a tenth of ALL.

So I will ask once again give me a SPECIFIC verse where ANYONE said tithing ceased.
Why is it so hard to just come up with the written Word on this subject?
is is because no written word exists the modern attack on tithing?
Is it because the Biblical tithe is different from the nay sayers?


Thank you.


BTW I will let you buy me a steak anytime.

Yeah, same ol drum beat. Abraham tithed on property that did not belong to him. Jacob tithed once on wealth/assets, not income.

God did not command either to tithe.

What do you not get about that?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Pliny

I will try to get to this some time this week. I am very busy and I am sure you are as well. Since I am here and have but a couple moments I will ask this:
You have stated that money is used in the text of Genesis 32 times. The term used is a translation.

The term "money" for example is the Hebrew word keseph.
According to BDB
BDB Definition:
1) silver, money
1a) silver
1a1) as metal
1a2) as ornament
1a3) as colour
1b) money, shekels, talents

Also in Genesis it states: (Gen 43:21 KJV) And it came to pass, when we came to the inn, that we opened our sacks, and, behold, every man's money was in the mouth of his sack, our money in full weight: and we have brought it again in our hand.

The "money" was not currency. It was precious metals that was weighed out in bartering. Currency, as is known in the 21st century was not in existence until the end of the OT. The Bible was not written in a vacuum as you well know. It was written in a historical context. The context of money then is not even close to today.

BTW there is no need for you to get testy with me. I have been respectful of you.
(Your man-made description is irrelevant to me)

Abraham did not practice child sacrifice, temple prostitution or sodomy. Therein lies the difference. He did practice tithing.

Tithing once (on other people's possessions) does not constitute a "practice".

[Originalist]

Deacon Blues continues to spew slander and misrepresentation....

Why would you want to waste your energy trying to convince people NOT to give???

Since nobody has been encouraged not to give, that makes you guilty of bearing false witness.