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Originally Posted by shazeep
none of which answers the question, with all due respect. Attacking my beliefs or my faith just comes across as defensive;
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I am not intending to attack anything. I am just stating what the bible teaches about salvation and works.
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this is not about denying the cross, but fulfilling it.
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I disagree. You're half right. But you discard the greatest half. The all important part is what remits sins and what makes us righteous. That is the reason you think Muslims carry the cross for God to save them. But they aren't crucified with Christ by faith for remission of sins and deeming of righteousness.
We need to extrapolate further back and get to the beginning. The beginning is what remits sins and what causes us to be righteous. From there we proceed. And as I have been trying to say, we agree totally on the need for fruit and how fruit shows who is true. But before anyone knows who or who is not true, there is what God sees in the Spirit concerning who He deems righteous before they get a chance to do one single good deed.
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And demonstrably not about some snippets, but the heart of Scripture; the founding doctrine, that the early Church considered "sufficient." Your argument does not jibe with "Love is 9/10ths of the Law,"
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And law saves no one. I said that several times. LAW IS OF WORKS.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
This is the CORE truth. LAW is of works. So whatever is 9/10ths of the law is still 9/10s of works. This is the huge difference between Law and grace.
It is where love comes from, or else it's plastic fruit.
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and must needs ignore lots of supporting Scripture, too. All those snippets. This argument brings the cross to life, it does not deny it.
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It does deny the cross, because the bible speaks of the cross as making us righteous before one good deed is done. It's just the way it is.
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Originally Posted by shazeep
If the Acts 2:38 experience, performed at the altar in front of a church (or wherever), is sufficient unto salvation, what prevents one from applying it on their deathbed?
(the "Constantinian Model")
(And, if it produces dead Christians anyway, what is the diff?) |
You are reasoning things away and for some reason absolutely refusing to see if the bible is stating what I am saying or not. Your basis is not the word by reasoning.
The problem with people putting it off as you suggest is that they are in disobedience and God takes note of that. It is a factor. But get into the Word. That is our foundation, not hypotheticals.
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Originally Posted by shazeep
another reflection is, which serves one, and which serves others? We are rightly accused of often being navel-gazers.
When you proclaim the cross, no matter how loudly, and say you love Jesus and trust God, but you lock your doors and buy a gun because They are all Lost, you make the Cross of no effect.
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I agree. You just aren't getting my point of what MUST COME before all of that.. lol
Hybrid Mode
