Love One Another and the Cross

[shazeep]

but all i am seeing is "proof" that salvation is not of works. Amen. Works done for salvation are law, not grace, and there is a simple test to determine the efficacy of one's works, as i have outlined to the best of my understanding--from personal experience--although there certainly might be other valid reflections upon this.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

but all i am seeing is "proof" that salvation is not of works. Amen. Works done for salvation are law, not grace, and there is a simple test to determine the efficacy of one's works, as i have outlined to the best of my understanding--from personal experience--although there certainly might be other valid reflections upon this.

But what about the correct faith BEFORE we get a moment to commit any works that prove that faith? What is the exact nature of that faith in your mind?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But what about the correct faith BEFORE we get a moment to commit any works that prove that faith?

that faith--without works--is dead. It remains an ideal; some pretty words. It seems a fabulous way to produce divisions, and accusers; and rarely a changed heart, even though it sounds like it should do the opposite. One is universally counseled to continue the pursuit of happiness after this "conversion," as presented by an affiliated church.

Hmm, what else...ah, someone with that faith becomes exceedingly obnoxious to everyone around them, some unmitigated superiority seems to accompany their diatribes...etc etc. The accepted cliches. They are known by their fruit, iow, those who have that faith. I have yet to work with one in my 7 years of volunteering, now that i think about it.

I'm trying to think of any redeeming qualities of those types...and I'm still trying