Love One Another and the Cross

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

And with all due respect, this point has been sufficiently made now, i think. It is ultimately for each person to define. I have no desire to keep sniping at each other, and i only persisted because i remember when i thought everyone else was lost, and i had no sin. I was on top of the world; and those were my darkest days. If that sentence describes you, and you are proud of your knowledge about Christ, then you are in a bad way.

I in no manner feel proud of who I think is lost while I am saved. That is nothing to do with my point, and I have made that known throughout these discussions. You just rejected my explanation about that.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I in no manner feel proud of who I think is lost while I am saved. That is nothing to do with my point, and I have made that known throughout these discussions. You just rejected my explanation about that.

well, i'm lobbing grenades at it, yes. To me, it reeks of lack of humility, and/or self-servitude, and/or false superiority. "While i am saved?" Who lied to you, and told you that you were saved? You are not saved, and i can prove this with Scripture. Definitively. I would not describe myself as saved, either, although there were multiple decades when i would have.

I'm also having issues with "who i think is lost," for more or less the same reason; you believe you somehow have got a bead on who is saved or lost, and this is a dangerous, self serving position. None of these people has "held out to the end." I can make a case for many who you would surely term saved having not even begun holding out at all yet--they don't even know what holding out means, perhaps.

I am trying to imagine the case where "I, who am saved, humbly feel for those who don't believe as i do, and are lost" would not be accompanied by crocodile tears; and i can't. I can remember experiencing this perception, and of course "pride" is not how any Christian would describe it, once they know that "pride" is a code-word to be avoided, but that is pretty much full blown lack of humility regardless. Of course it is all Scripturally, factually justified; "proven," if you will. By ignoring some other Scripture--lots of other Scripture.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i'm lobbing grenades at it, yes. To me, it reeks of lack of humility, and/or self-servitude, and/or false superiority. "While i am saved?" Who lied to you, and told you that you were saved? You are not saved, and i can prove this with Scripture. Definitively. I would not describe myself as saved, either, although there were multiple decades when i would have.

You also believe no one can know for sure they're saved, anyway. So much for your opinion on that issue.

To you what lacks of humility is just the problem. TO YOU. Maybe you were so self righteous in your Acts 2:38 days that you think no one can espouse Acts 2:38 without being full of pride. But it's downright ignorant to accuse someone of lacking humility just because they read John says denial of the son is antichrist, then read the koran deny the son's existence left, right and centre, and say anyone who agrees with the koran is antichrist and therefore lost.

Everything is "TO ME."

I'm also having issues with "who i think is lost," for more or less the same reason; you believe you somehow have got a bead on who is saved or lost,

Lol. No. I said a child could understand that. Those who deny the son are antichrist. Koran teaches God has no son in multiple places. A child could understand that. No "bead" needed.

and this is a dangerous, self serving position.

It's solid bible teaching. Nothing to do with self-serving, though I'm sure some use it for that reason.

None of these people has "held out to the end." I can make a case for many who you would surely term saved having not even begun holding out at all yet--they don't even know what holding out means, perhaps.

NO, of course I don't. Anything you say. You know, "TO ME" and all.

I am trying to imagine the case where "I, who am saved, humbly feel for those who don't believe as i do, and are lost" would not be accompanied by crocodile tears; and i can't.

That's the problem. Its'a all "TO ME."

I can remember experiencing this perception, and of course "pride" is not how any Christian would describe it, once they know that "pride" is a code-word to be avoided,

Exactly. "TO ME." You judge everyone but what you did. You cannot imagine another intention apart from the one to do with "TO ME."

but that is pretty much full blown lack of humility regardless. Of course it is all Scripturally, factually justified; "proven," if you will. By ignoring some other Scripture--lots of other Scripture.

Ignoring none. And I asked you to present them then you say you're not interested after pounding that mantra over and over.

Well, heres "TO YOU."