New Birth

[mfblume]

Chateau.... no one in respected christendom believes new birth was possible without and before the cross, let alone apostolics. Seriously, you're on your own on this one.

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Chateau.... no one in respected christendom believes new birth was possible without and before the cross, let alone apostolics. Seriously, you're on your own on this one.

Of course, but read Paul's statement in Romans 3. Those who had a forward-looking trust in Messiah were justified by the cross just as we are today. God included them in what He had planned.

In that way they were born again. They were dead in sin until Jesus led captivity captive and gave gifts to men. Through Him, they have been, and will be, born again, just as we are.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

Of course, but read Paul's statement in Romans 3. Those who had a forward-looking trust in Messiah were justified by the cross just as we are today. God included them in what He had planned.

In that way they were born again. They were dead in sin until Jesus led captivity captive and gave gifts to men. Through Him, they have been, and will be, born again, just as we are.

No. New birth cannot happen before the cross. Simply cannot happen without actual resurrection of Jesus taking place. No scholar believes what you're proposing. Where did you get that idea from? Show me one witness from a scholarly source for this claim. You're making things up as you go along. You're too off the wall here, Chateau.

[mfblume]

For those who say Acts 2:38 is not the only way.... how many ways are there?

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No. New birth cannot happen before the cross. Simply cannot happen without actual resurrection of Jesus taking place. No scholar believes what you're proposing. Where did you get that idea from? Show me one witness from a scholarly source for this claim. You're making things up as you go along. You're too off the wall here, Chateau.

You are not reading, you are projecting.

I have not stated that New Birth happened pre-cross.

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No. New birth cannot happen before the cross. Simply cannot happen without actual resurrection of Jesus taking place. No scholar believes what you're proposing. Where did you get that idea from? Show me one witness from a scholarly source for this claim. You're making things up as you go along. You're too off the wall here, Chateau.

Why did Jesus mention being born again to Nicodemus, prior to dying on the cross?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

Why did Jesus mention being born again to Nicodemus, prior to dying on the cross?

I already explained that. It was just like He mentioned living waters of the Spirit flowing before that Spirit was available, as distinctly noted in John 7:37-39. Jesus tells them to come to Him for living waters, and John notes that was not possible til after the glorification.

[mfblume]

You are not reading, you are projecting.

I have not stated that New Birth happened pre-cross.

You said:

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

Of course, but read Paul's statement in Romans 3. Those who had a forward-looking trust in Messiah were justified by the cross just as we are today. God included them in what He had planned.

In that way they were born again. They were dead in sin until Jesus led captivity captive and gave gifts to men. Through Him, they have been, and will be, born again, just as we are.

New birth is being born again. You are saying THEY WERE BORN AGAIN. Which is it, then?" Which statement is correct of the two contradicting statements you made above?